Author Topic: Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)  (Read 211673 times)

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Offline Old San Antone

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Re: Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)
« Reply #1100 on: October 04, 2020, 05:42:51 AM »
And even if it turned out a difficult marriage she apparently was also very much in love with and devoted to Schumann. As for Brahms I have not read Stafford's biography and not the whole text linked above but I find this obsession with artist's sex lives repulsive and quaint. I'd have thought that this pseudo-Freudian stuff was past its sell by date since the 1970s or so.

I have read Stafford's biography, but must have skimmed over sections not about the music.  I fail to see the importance of any kind of romantic relationship between Brahms and Clara Schumann.  Other than as it pertains to their musical interaction, I couldn't care less about their personal relationship.

Which is how I feel regarding all composers and artists in general. 

Offline Herman

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Re: Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)
« Reply #1101 on: October 05, 2020, 12:46:39 AM »
The idea that your entire life should be wrapped up in your sexual partner is in fact a very modern one, built on notions of love being all-consuming.

The funny thing, to me, is that Schumann's music (and the story made of his life with Clara) is somehow one of the formative influences on this idea of romantic love.

There is no hard evidence for this. Just as there is no hard evidence that Provençal love poetry, Petrarch and Shakespeare had any influence on the way people thought about life and love.

Offline Madiel

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Re: Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)
« Reply #1102 on: October 05, 2020, 02:16:53 AM »
The funny thing, to me, is that Schumann's music (and the story made of his life with Clara) is somehow one of the formative influences on this idea of romantic love.

There is no hard evidence for this. Just as there is no hard evidence that Provençal love poetry, Petrarch and Shakespeare had any influence on the way people thought about life and love.

Yes, while there is no hard evidence, I can certainly see why you're saying that.
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Offline Herman

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Re: Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)
« Reply #1103 on: October 05, 2020, 07:22:24 AM »
A lot of Schumann's piano music can be made to sound like a sound track to romantic love.

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Johannes Brahms (1833-1897)
« Reply #1104 on: October 05, 2020, 07:36:26 AM »
My view of romantic love was very much influenced by this Shakespeare sonnet

Quote
Th' expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjured, murd'rous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust,
Enjoyed no sooner but despisèd straight,
Past reason hunted; and, no sooner had
Past reason hated as a swallowed bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Mad in pursuit and in possession so,
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
    All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
    To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen