Bruckner's Abbey

[MishaK]

Now here I have to differ from you.   I have the his recording of the M5/VPO and don't think anything is wrong with it.

We are comparing a live performance I heard with a recording you own that was made years earlier. Apples and oranges, to say the least.

[MishaK]

Anyone familiar with this?

[asin]B0000015AH[/asin]

[Daverz]

Anyone familiar with this?

Here's Robert McColley in Fanfare:

"[...] Conductor, orchestra, and recording engineer ("Prof. Johnson," a.k.a. Keith O. Johnson) have combined to give us the most perfectly classical recording of the masterpiece to date. "Classical" here refers to the ideals of clarity, logic, coherence, proportion, and overall control. Emotion, even intense passion, are by no means excluded, but are always held on the tight leash of intellect. Much of the clarity in this recording derives from the superb engineering, but the engineer can not make strings play perfectly together or in tune; for this, the credit is entirely due the orchestra. The engineer can and does make oboes sound different from clarinets, and Wagner tubas sound different from French horns and trombones. It is the entire team of conductor, player, and engineer that makes the celebrated fortissimo chord change toward the end of the third movement so completely lucid and intelligible. This is the dissonance of 12 tones played simultaneously that has so delighted the disciples of Arnold Schoenbcrg and other progressives.  This is not THE best way to play this powerful, tragic, and utterly original work, but it is certainly ONE of the best. A case can be made for more passionate, intense, and warmly recorded versions [...] But Skrowaczewski's exquisitely recorded version has its own special distinction and grandeur. I urge listeners who take their Bruckner seriously—as everyone should—to hear it. [...]"

And Michael Jameson in the same magazine:

"Everything goes well with this convincingly argued, lovingly addressed account of Bruckner's mighty Ninth Symphony. Notwithstanding the excellence of "Prof." Keith O. Johnson's stunning recording, in itself an astonishing technical feat, this performance is massively authoritative. Bruckner's heartrendingly plangent farewell to things temporal has rarely found itself in hands as serenely assured, masterful, and selflessly dedicated as Skrowaczewski's, and the playing of the Minnesota Orchestra should cause concern in those European centers that have traditionally claimed preeminence in Bruckner performance.
From the outset, one's attention is constantly drawn to the recording itself; in fact, even those dyed-in-the-wool Brucknerians who know this work intimately will be unable to suppress astonishment at just how much aural detail and orchestral perspective is conveyed by this disc. [...]

Like Jascha Horenstein, Skrowaczewski has a special feel, too, for Bruckner's harmonic kinships and inner motions in a way that few have equaled; his is certainly one of the finest expositions of this great and terrifying symphony yet committed to disc, and I'll wager that its sojourn in the catalogs will be a lengthy and much-praised one. Stanislaw Skrowaczewski opens our senses and emotions to the surpassing Gothic amphitheater of Bruckner's world of aspiration, anxiety, and unswerving devotion to the God with whom we all come face-to-face in this music—it's a chastening yet liberating experience, and one that none of us can afford to miss."

[MishaK]

Damn! I'm just gonna have to get it. I was furious at myself for getting the flu winter a year ago, which prevented me from going to Munich where Skrowaczewski was conducting Bruckner 2 with BRSO. I later managed to get an mp3 of the radio broadcast of the concert I meant to attend. It was the most intense, coherent and passionately played Bruckner 2 I have ever heard. I almost got sick again from frustration.

[Lilas Pastia]

I found this little reference whilst looking up Hartmann.  I just wanted to say that this certainly is a reference.  Since I came to Bruckner in 1993 (or he came to me, rather) I've probably heard or posessed more Bruckner 6th Symphonies than you can shake a conductors stick at.
Last year in my living room I picked up the conductors stick myself when I heard this Leitner version of Bruckners 6th.  It was recorded in 1976, but the positioning, the sonics and probably the sheer brilliance of the conductor make this BY FAR one of the most memorable 6ths I, personally, have ever experienced.  It made me look up Leitner for more of his conducting capers, but I couldn't find any more Bruckner recodings by him. 

Leitner re-recorded the 6th in Basel, Switzerland (of Honegger 'Deliciae basiliensis' fame for those who can't quite place it). He also recorded the 9th with the Stuttgart Orchestra on the same label. Plus a few others (I don't think his Hague 7th is one of the best - badly let down by a tentative orchestra). I recall a 9th in concert that was very, very meritorious. It was cumulatively impressive.

In short: this Baden-Baden 6th and the Stuttgart 9th have as much a claim as a benchmark version as any I've heard (both in really splendid sound). I can't think of a single note that doesn't sound 'right' and 'in place', something very few conductors achieve. Jochum got it rigth only toward the tail end of his long carreer, when he had nothing to prove and nothing else to re-record - I salute his dogged, honest pursuit of the shape of the brucknerian paragraph. Karajan tried mightily fo some 50 years but only intermittently achieved convincing results, let alone greatness (significantly, in his late Vienna phase, when he was free of any 'obligation of results').

Leitner's later Basel version is a totally different proposition. One of my good friends and regular Bruckner Journal contributor thinks it's unique. I agree, but will leave it to any one with an open mind to assess. In this, Leitner reminds me of Giulini's late Concertgebouw - Vienna phase. Big, brawny, lovingly detailed, sometimes curiously uneventful. In the end it all comes together powefully, but on an intellectual, not 'physical' level. If the description helps, then you know if this 1992 Accord version is for you.

Other characterful recommendations: Bongartz, Rögner, Stein, Swoboda, Keilberth...

[mahler10th]

Fantastic information Andre,  thank you very much for that.   

[Sergeant Rock]

Leitner re-recorded the 6th in Basel, Switzerland

Welcome back, André! You were missed...especially here in the Abbey.

Sarge

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Welcome back, André! You were missed...especially here in the Abbey.

Yes, welcome back, André! Though I must tell my fellow Brucknerians here that André and I met up in Amsterdam last year (June), for a meal and subsequent concert at the Concertgebouw (Mahler 5). Very enjoyable and memorable!

[MishaK]

Just finished listening to Simone Young's recording of the original version of the 8th symphony. I must say, although I very much liked Young's recording of the original 4th - that original version is basically a completely different symphony in its own right - I'm not convinced by this one at all, mainly due to the disjointed first movement. I have to say, that, in this case, subsequent edits improved this symphony. The first movement just doesn't hang together, and I can't blame Young for it. The buildup to the climax of the first movement is not dramatically convincing, having none of the gradual buildup of intensity of the later versions, and the coda is bizarre. Another problem here is that the orchestration is quite different and more brass-heavy, which in the case of the otherwise fine Hamburgers means that their somewhat anemic strings sometimes struggle to be heard. Also, a lot of the contrapuntal writing in the later version of the first movement seems to have been later additions, which makes this version somewhat plainer. The added harp glissando swooshes are just plain gimmicky. The Scherzo is good for the Scherzo part and not too terribly different from the later version, though it has a few interesting dissonances missing in the later versions. The Trio section sounds, how should I say it, "cheesier" than the later versions. Strangely more pastoral and not in a good way.

The differences in the Adagio for the most part are not so great: a few changes in orchestration here, a different transition there. It's still one of the greatest things Bruckner ever wrote, even in the original version. There are actually a few passages where the winds gain additional prominence in this original version which make this one quite interesting to listen to. But then, shortly before the climax, there is a passage that is so completely changed harmonically and in orchestration that it sounds more like second rate Wagner than first rate Bruckner. Again, I feel it undermines the buildup to the climax. The cymbal clashes at the climax are weird. One would have made sense, but the second one is odd. The coda is still the same gorgeous horn prayer we know and love from the later versions. Similar story in the finale. It is very similar to the (uncut) 1887/90 Haas version. A few changes in orchestration, some slightly different ostinato patterns, some changes in dynamics. Otherwise this movement is closest to the later versions we all know.

So, in sum, I didn't find this as interesting or revealing as her recording of the original 4th. The first movement is distinctly inferior, as is the trio of the scherzo. The rest isn't so massively different to make this a must hear.

[Lilas Pastia]

Thanks ! 

I'm not exactly on a Bruckner roll, these days. Just too many new records to listen to. They pile up faster that I can manage. But I do have a few dozen Bruckners in the pile, so you'll here from me here and then !

[Daverz]

The only reason I got this set was for the new remastering of the Rosbaud B7.  This was originally on Vox (they managed to cram it onto 1 Lp).  I think this is still one of the great B7s.  If you have the old Vox CD, it's time to throw it away.  Apart from limited dynamic range, the sound is now nearly modern.  Not sure what I'm going to do with the other CDs in the set.  The Hollreiser B4 may be interesting.

[Cato]

This was mentioned a few weeks ago: someone has placed the commercial on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.td/watch?v=MktHYesGMlY

Should we be outraged at the sacrilege or hopeful that perhaps somebody might want to hear more Bruckner as a result?   0:)

[bhodges]

That is too hilarious. And although Anton might frown, I will hope your latter theory comes true. 

--Bruce

[Brian]

This was mentioned a few weeks ago: someone has placed the commercial on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.td/watch?v=MktHYesGMlY

Should we be outraged at the sacrilege or hopeful that perhaps somebody might want to hear more Bruckner as a result?   0:)

I'll repeat my earlier comment, just because they used Bruckner I will buy Arby's* as soon as I get back to the USA. Fantastic!
*a meal, not an investment

[greg]

For the non-Americans here, in the U.S. there exists a fast-food chain called "Arby's" which specializes in Roast Beef sandwiches (R-B = "Arby's").

They now have an ad on television for some special offer with a nautical theme (?).

The background music for the ad is...the opening....of Bruckner's Seventh Symphony!!!

Sacrilege or Desecration?   0:)

Or smart marketing?   

I've never seen it, but here it is:
http://www.youtube.com/v/MktHYesGMlY

That's funny, I actually had conceived this exact same music to be the opening music of my imaginary movie/video game project that me and my little brother have been discussing for months.

Impossible to describe in text, but basically, it shows the beginning of the universe being created while Bruckner's 7th plays. Booming voice narrator: "In the beginning, God created the heavens, the earth, and....    Man." The camera zooms up to a Larry the Cable Guy-looking redneck and he says with a big grin, "Here I is." Then this corny country theme that I made up is played and he walks out into the woods.

[mahler10th]

This was mentioned a few weeks ago: someone has placed the commercial on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.td/watch?v=MktHYesGMlY
Should we be outraged at the sacrilege or hopeful that perhaps somebody might want to hear more Bruckner as a result?   0:)

No Sir, we should ALL be making our way to Arbys, because two fish sandwiches for four dollars sounds like a pretty good deal.  At least, it would be here if Arbys was in the UK, where they would cost around £2.29 each.   

[Cato]

No Sir, we should ALL be making our way to Arbys, because two fish sandwiches for four dollars sounds like a pretty good deal.  At least, it would be here if Arbys was in the UK, where they would cost around £2.29 each.   

Now there is a reason to emigrate!   

[DavidRoss]

Did the narrator say that the sandwich was rated #1 by drugcrazed.com?

[Scarpia]

This was mentioned a few weeks ago: someone has placed the commercial on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.td/watch?v=MktHYesGMlY

Should we be outraged at the sacrilege or hopeful that perhaps somebody might want to hear more Bruckner as a result?   0:)

Hmmm, I don't recall those bells sounding at the end of the commercial in my Karajan recording.  Arby's must be using one of Bruckner less well-considered revised manuscripts for that performance.   

[Cato]

Hmmm, I don't recall those bells sounding at the end of the commercial in my Karajan recording.  Arby's must be using one of Bruckner less well-considered revised manuscripts for that performance.   

Not to mention the Antonio-Banderas wannabe narrating the thing!      

Schoenberg of course had a Sprecher for the Gurrelieder, which Bruckner might have understood.

But the only thing Bruckner might understand about the commercial is that the fish-sandwich sale is in preparation for Lent!   0:)