Bruckner's Abbey

[calyptorhynchus]

To add to the above, the article referred to has, on pp20-21 a thematic breakdown of the finale, but with only sporadic indications of key. As well has having a full narrative of this, it would be useful to have a general discussion about tonality in the symphony. Bruckner is usually very good at treating different tonal areas in different movements, so if the slow movement had deal extensively with a certain set of keys, then the finale will emphasise other ones in relation to the tonic.

My interest in this is from reading Robert Simpson's Bruckner book. In his last published words on the subject (the revised edition in 1992) he doubted that the reconstructions he had seen would prove to have the necessary tonal momentum to support the ending of the finale. My tone-deaf ears suggest that the latest reconstruction does have this, but I wanted to read an account discussing this aspect of the reconstruction work.

[MishaK]

I don't know of an article that walks you through the movement, but you should definitely get a hold of this album (or listen to it on Spotify):

http://www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Symphony-Documentation-Fragment-Harnoncourt/dp/B0000AF1IG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1382386485&sr=8-1&keywords=bruckner+harnoncourt

There is a lecture both in English and German (separate tracks), in which Harnoncourt and his musicians explain what is left of the movement that is original Bruckner, and he explains the structure a bit as well as he goes along while conducting the pertinent fragments.

[Karl Henning]

Oh, I had to look in here, hadn't I . . . .

[Octave]

Two questions:

1. To revive a topic that's had some discussion: are there any ~complete motets recordings that are most highly recommended?  I have the old Jochum recordings (the old 'embossed' white box), but I'd like a more recent recording and/or different approach.  Monkey Greg got the Jones/Naxos early this year and sampled a couple others, and there was brief discussion.
Actually, strong recommendations for sundry recordings of each of the motets might be even better.
Monkey Greg's post with a bit of discussion following is here.

2. Is there an exceptional recording of the REQUIEM that must be heard?  These seem more rare.

[Wanderer]

2. Is there an exceptional recording of the REQUIEM that must be heard?  These seem more rare.

There's a decent one on Hyperion (amazon.com link) but I've never thought of it as particularly exceptional (i.e. of the "must be heard" variety).

[Cato]

There's a decent one on Hyperion (amazon.com link) but I've never thought of it as particularly exceptional (i.e. of the "must be heard" variety).

Wow!  The Requiem!  I must admit that I have not listened nor thought of it in decades!!!

My LP collection had (I think) a Nonesuch recording, but I cannot recall anything else about it.

Wikipedia has a recommendation for this one:

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and this one:

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[North Star]

Wikipedia has a recommendation

Oh, they recommend recordings these days? 

[Cato]

Oh, they recommend recordings these days? 

Well, they did this time!   

From what I can tell, these are the only two available anyway!

[North Star]

Well, they did this time!   

From what I can tell, these are the only two available anyway!

Yes, in that case it's probably not too subjective for Wikipedia. 

[Karl Henning]

and this one:

[asin]B001JHI8QQ[/asin]

I like the Ockeghem / de Lassus volume in that series, so I'll give that one a shot!

[Octave]

Thanks Cato and Wanderer.
Someone else posted right after Wanderer this morning and suggested yet another recording, out of print and perhaps never CD'ed.  I was at work and did not save the link....and now the post has disappeared!  I'm annoyed that I cannot even remember who the poster was, but if he reads this, can he PM me with that link?

[Brahmsian]

First listens to these magnificent performances (particularly the 2nd).  Sizzling, spicy hot!! 

Bruckner

Symphony No. 2 in C minor (1875/76 Nowak)
Symphony No. 3 in D minor (1888/89 Nowak)

Jochum
Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

DG

[asin]B00006YXOX[/asin]

[madaboutmahler]

Loved Vanksa's 3rd with the BBC Scottish SO, now had the pleasure of listening to his 4th (1888 version) with the Minnesota Orchestra via Spotify. Another successful interpretation to these ears, very detailed with a consistent emotional drive, cymbals and all.
Any other takers?

Where are the cymbals placed Greg in this version? And how regularly? I'm all for loads of percussion as you know, but I wonder if adding cymbals to Bruckner (I know it has been done in 5 as well), makes moments like the one crash in the Adagio of 7 slightly less awe-inspiring and special.. that crash is one of my favourite moments in all Bruckner and all music!

[Brahmsian]

Where are the cymbals placed Greg in this version? And how regularly? I'm all for loads of percussion as you know, but I wonder if adding cymbals to Bruckner (I know it has been done in 5 as well), makes moments like the one crash in the Adagio of 7 slightly less awe-inspiring and special.. that crash is one of my favourite moments in all Bruckner and all music!

Same here, Daniel.  I'm an 'unpurist', when it comes to stuff like this.   

[Cato]

First listens to these magnificent performances (particularly the 2nd).  Sizzling, spicy hot!! 

Bruckner

Symphony No. 2 in C minor (1875/76 Nowak)
Symphony No. 3 in D minor (1888/89 Nowak)

Jochum
Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

DG

[asin]B00006YXOX[/asin]

My favorite set! 

And speaking of cymbal clashes NOT indicated in the score...

Where are the cymbals placed Greg in this version? And how regularly? I'm all for loads of percussion as you know, but I wonder if adding cymbals to Bruckner (I know it has been done in 5 as well), makes moments like the one crash in the Adagio of 7 slightly less awe-inspiring and special.. that crash is one of my favourite moments in all Bruckner and all music!

Jochum adds cymbals most effectively in the first movement of the Fourth (Nowak score) bar 325.

[Brahmsian]

First listens to these wonderful performances, over the last few days.

Bruckner

Symphony No. 4 in E flat major 'Romantic'
*Symphony No. 5 in B flat major
*Symphony No. 6 in A major
Symphony No. 7 in E major
Symphony No. 8 in C minor
Symphony No. 9 in D minor

Jochum
Berlin Philharmonic
*Symphonieorchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks

DG

[asin]B00006YXOX[/asin]

So, this completes my first run through this set.  All terrific performances, but the performances that really stand out for me are the 2nd, 5th and 6th symphonies! 

[Karl Henning]

This morning, I listened again to "Sarge's Seventh," the Chailly/Berlin Radio Symphony CD.  I love this stuff!  Could listen to the Adagio on repeat forever.

[madaboutmahler]

This morning, I listened again to "Sarge's Seventh," the Chailly/Berlin Radio Symphony CD.  I love this stuff!  Could listen to the Adagio on repeat forever.

I have that performance on the listening pile and am very excited to hear it, especially now that I know it's 'Sarge's Seventh'!! I agree, the Adagio is just incredible. The climax with the cymbal crash is one of my favourite moments in music. So exciting and glorious!

[Sergeant Rock]

I have that performance on the listening pile and am very excited to hear it, especially now that I know it's 'Sarge's Seventh'!! I agree, the Adagio is just incredible. The climax with the cymbal crash is one of my favourite moments in music. So exciting and glorious!

Have you heard the symphony live yet, Daniel? The Adagio is staggering live. I've heard Sinopoli, Barenboim and Welser-Möst (the most impressive of the three actually) but missed Celi 

Sarge

[North Star]

This morning, I listened again to "Sarge's Seventh," the Chailly/Berlin Radio Symphony CD.  I love this stuff!  Could listen to the Adagio on repeat forever.

I have that performance on the listening pile and am very excited to hear it, especially now that I know it's 'Sarge's Seventh'!! I agree, the Adagio is just incredible. The climax with the cymbal crash is one of my favourite moments in music. So exciting and glorious!

That's a great performance indeed! And yes, I've repeated the Adagio aplenty, too.