Bruckner's Abbey

[Cato]

All things Jochum were my keys to Bruckner, including the Masses and Motets.

Once it was not possible (or not easy at least) to find the E minor Mass, but now that is over!

Helgoland allows one a glimpse of what kind of drama the chorus in a Bruckner opera would offer us!  At times I hear the sounds of the future Busoni in this work.  And yet, Bruckner is present in every note, not the past of Wagner, not the future of Busoni, but the past, present, and future of Bruckner.

Imagine Bruckner composing an opera on the Book of Enoch or something similar!    0:)

[Cato]

On May 9th Mrs. Cato and I were at the Rosary Cathedral for the Toledo Symphony's performance of the Symphony #0, an undoubtedly rare event.  About 10 years ago the orchestra began a tradition of playing a Bruckner symphony in the cathedral, and every time I have gone, they have turned in excellent work. 

The acoustics last night were more than excellent for the opening of the work: I was captivated immediately by how the mysterious opening was heightened by the distant echoing in the sanctuary.  The second movement had some gorgeous playing by the principal oboist and the French horns, and the brass did their work most admirably for the finale.

All in all, Stefan Sanderling (a minimalist conductor who saw no need to flail around to get what he wanted) and the orchestra made a fine case that Die Nullte is certainly much more than zero!  Perhaps Symphony 2.5?

And the 1,000 + member audience  was determined to clap after every movement, so great was the response: in the end, an instant standing ovation was given (although right now in increasingly egalitarian  America, there is a tendency to give everyone a standing ovation).

In this case it was deserved!

Interesting that there are not more CD's of #0 in print!

And I did not see GMG member Allan in the bass section: a pity!

[Karl Henning]

Excellent in all particulars, save only in our Allan's absence!

[Sergeant Rock]

Interesting that there are not more CD's of #0 in print!

I agree. It's a wonderful symphony. I don't understand its relative neglect. I've only seven in my collection but they cover a wide interpretive range, including the Celi-like Maazel and Blunier (at least in the first movement). The Maazel Die Nullte is typical of his style throughout his cycle: a slower than normal first movement; a faster than normal slow movement.

Maazel/SOBR                             18:25  11:39  7:54  10:49
Blunier/Beethoven O Bonn          18:08  14:51  7:01  10:07
Chailly/DSO Berlin                      15:15  13:47  6:47  10:36
Barenboim/Chicago                    15:13  12:43  6:49  11:03
Venzago/Tapiola Sinfonietta        14:41  12:16  7:07    9:52
Tintner/NSO Ireland                   14:32  14:29  7:14  11:10
Skrowaczewski/Saarbrück RSO   13:53   13:21  6:44  10:56


Sarge

[Cato]

Many thanks to Sarge for the information on the CD's.  Outside of a radio broadcast on the local classical station, last night's performance (as far as I know) is not connected to any commercially available recording.

[André]

Symphony no 1: Gewandhaus Orchester, Leipzig under Vaclav Neumann. Originally Berlin classics, also part of the integral set newly issued on Brilliant. This is one of the major entries in the First sweepstakes. Not that there are that many. This cinderella among Bruckner's symphonies has not really been favoured by conductors over the years. There are two quite different versions when it comes to the orchestration (the text is basically identical). The Linz version is the earlier (original) one, while the Vienna revision, dating from Bruckner's last years boasts a more coruscating, denser orchestration. I much prefer the Linz version, with its clearer outlines, sharper contours. Especially with an orchestra of the caliber of the Leipzig Gewandhaus, with its dark, heavy bass string sections and saturnine low winds and brasses. Despite somewhat coarse sonics, this is a distinguished interpretation, full of fire and brimstone (listen to the cascading brass orations in the Finale).

Symphony no 1:COA, Bernard Haitink. Philips Classics. This was my first ever First, back in the vinyl days. Speaking of vinyls, I find that the Concertgebouw sound was much more enveloping and coulourful back then. On cd it sounds pristine and clear, but violins and trumpets dominate, with a much brighter overall sound picture. In asny case, it was and remains my favourite version among all those I have heard. The orchestra boast a mixture of fire-in-the-belly and elegance that is just right for this very classical work. A bit more impulsive than Neumann and adumbrated as it is with a more expert brass section, it scintillates and packs a mean rythmic punch. A classic disc.

Symphony no 2: Bruckner Orchester Linz, Kurt Eichhhorn (Camerata label). The composite 1876 version.
Eichhorn recorded this symphony in 4 different textual versions. Among these, there is basicslly two choices to be made: the original, more discursive and diffuse 1872 text, and one of the various later revisions (main difference among those: the choice of a horn vs clarinet in the concluding measures of the slow movement). There is also the order of the two middle movements, a lesser concern (anybody so inclined may make the choice of scherzo before andante or vice versa).

Very good interpretation from a provincial but fluent orchestra and an expert, genial, no-nonsense conductor.

Symphony no 2: NDR Orchestra (Hamburg), Herbert Blomstedt (live 2009, various labels). Blomstedt has long championed the longer original version (the finale in particular being more varied and diffuse in the succession of moods and episodes). Blomstedt programmed the second here in Montreal à few years ago and the results were spectacular. Contrary to the verbose, lost-in-the-thickets Tintner, this is beautifully, elegantly, expertly and powerfully played and interpreted. The best case there is of the original version.

If one prefers the more concise later text, there are beautiful, powerful versions by Stein, Karajan, Zender and Haitink. On the left side of those is a furious, impatient Andreae, while on their right stands the apollonian vistas brought forth by Giulini.

[jlaurson]

Coming soon: Bruckner 2 with Giulini ! !

[André]

Warmly recommended. Unexpected choice of repertoire with all the special qualities one looks for in a Giulini recording.

[Cato]

Symphony no 1: Gewandhaus Orchester, Leipzig under Vaclav Neumann. Originally Berlin classics, also part of the integral set newly issued on Brilliant. This is one of the major entries in the First sweepstakes. Not that there are that many. This cinderella among Bruckner's symphonies has not really been favoured by conductors over the years. There are two quite different versions when it comes to the orchestration (the text is basically identical). The Linz version is the earlier (original) one, while the Vienna revision, dating from Bruckner's last years boasts a more coruscating, denser orchestration. I much prefer the Linz version, with its clearer outlines, sharper contours. Especially with an orchestra of the caliber of the Leipzig Gewandhaus, with its dark, heavy bass string sections and saturnine low winds and brasses. Despite somewhat coarse sonics, this is a distinguished interpretation, full of fire and brimstone (listen to the cascading brass orations in the Finale).

Symphony no 1:COA, Bernard Haitink. Philips Classics. This was my first ever First, back in the vinyl days. Speaking of vinyls, I find that the Concertgebouw sound was much more enveloping and coulourful back then. On cd it sounds pristine and clear, but violins and trumpets dominate, with a much brighter overall sound picture. In asny case, it was and remains my favourite version among all those I have heard. The orchestra boast a mixture of fire-in-the-belly and elegance that is just right for this very classical work. A bit more impulsive than Neumann and adumbrated as it is with a more expert brass section, it scintillates and packs a mean rythmic punch. A classic disc.

Symphony no 2: Bruckner Orchester Linz, Kurt Eichhhorn (Camerata label). The composite 1876 version.
Eichhorn recorded this symphony in 4 different textual versions. Among these, there is basicslly two choices to be made: the original, more discursive and diffuse 1872 text, and one of the various later revisions (main difference among those: the choice of a horn vs clarinet in the concluding measures of the slow movement). There is also the order of the two middle movements, a lesser concern (anybody so inclined may make the choice of scherzo before andante or vice versa).

Very good interpretation from a provincial but fluent orchestra and an expert, genial, no-nonsense conductor.

Symphony no 2: NDR Orchestra (Hamburg), Herbert Blomstedt (live 2009, various labels). Blomstedt has long championed the longer original version (the finale in particular being more varied and diffuse in the succession of moods and episodes). Blomstedt programmed the second here in Montreal à few years ago and the results were spectacular. Contrary to the verbose, lost-in-the-thickets Tintner, this is beautifully, elegantly, expertly and powerfully played and interpreted. The best case there is of the original version.

If one prefers the more concise later text, there are beautiful, powerful versions by Stein, Karajan, Zender and Haitink. On the left side of those is a furious, impatient Andreae, while on their right stands the apollonian vistas brought forth by Giulini.

Many thanks to Andre' for these excellent reviews! 

Yes, after resisting for too long, I gave the original version of the Second a chance and was quite happy with it: I have the Tintner version, so you have made me curious about this one conducted by Blomstedt!

Is the Giulini recording of the original or of the later revised edition? 

Hard to believe that Giulini would be 100 years old this month!  He never seemed to age!  I guess when record companies keep using the same pictures of him in turtle-neck sweaters...   0:)

[NJ Joe]

Symphony no 1:COA, Bernard Haitink. Philips Classics. This was my first ever First, back in the vinyl days. Speaking of vinyls, I find that the Concertgebouw sound was much more enveloping and coulourful back then. On cd it sounds pristine and clear, but violins and trumpets dominate, with a much brighter overall sound picture. In asny case, it was and remains my favourite version among all those I have heard. The orchestra boast a mixture of fire-in-the-belly and elegance that is just right for this very classical work. A bit more impulsive than Neumann and adumbrated as it is with a more expert brass section, it scintillates and packs a mean rythmic punch. A classic disc.

Hello Andre, thank you for the reviews. You never forget your first! I've been thinking about buying this entire set. Can I get your thoughts on it? 

[André]

Cato: Giulini plays the later version. There are basically 2 editions of it. Not much difference between them, except for the reision that replaced the horn coda to the slow movement (deemeed too hard to play) with a clarinet alternative. Both are beautiful in their own right. Today, horns can play it without intonation problems.

Joe: that's entirely true , the first ever never leaves your memory. It's there to be rekindled at the slightest provocation... Right now I am listening to my 'first ever' Manfred  (Abravanel and the Utah Symphony back in the days of Candide Vinyls) and finding all the familiar signposts in place. Because of that recording I have come to love the work and like recordings that had different qualities. But then, the cd of that Abravanel interpretation (a new acquisition) was almost like an electroshock. It had all - and more - of what I love about the work than anything else I recall hearing.

The same is true of that Haitink First. It could be sentimental, but I honestly think that it has it all: orchestral differentiation (virtuosity is a meaningless term), conductorial authority, engineering that still packs a mean punch and an audible relish of that work's originality and sauciness.

This is how I would rate the Haitink interpretations+orchestral execution+engineering: on a scale of 5

0 - 4.5  . Reference : Marriner
1 - 5. Other reference : Neumann
2 - 4.5. References: Stein and Zender, Giulini
3 - 3.5. This is the first recorded version of the longer finale text by Oeser. It is also one of the earliest performances in the set. Its is excellent and powerful.It's just that there are so many versions available (or the shorter Nowak).
4 - Same remark. It dates back from 1965, and has been beaten to the post many times. Still, it boasts the  excellent orchestral execution of the COA.
5 - 4. Very good version, excellently played. Others have cast a much stronger shadow (fast: Suitner and Gielen) - slow: Klemperer or Celibidahe). From a concert hall perspective it is excellent.
6 - 4.5. A superb version. This cinderella among Bruckner symphonies has had a clutch of magnificent recordings - deserving of its own thread IMHO.
7 - 3.5. A later 1979 recording exists (it is better). Still, this early one is quite good in a purely symphonic way.
8 - 5. Sooooooo many recordings of the work exist. Another subject worthy of its own thread. Another 'first' and quite honestly, it holds up its own among the very, very best ever made. It is the best of all the (many) recordings Haitink made of the Eight.
9 - 3.5. The latter 1981 recording is better realized. This is a sequel to the van Beinum Amsterdam, in which Haitink probably played (as violinist in that orchestra's section).

In short: you get superb  orchestral playing, an audible interpretational link to the great Bruckner tradition of the Amsterdam orchestra, conducting that is always alert, energetic yet never excited, and great engineering (except for 4, 7 and 9, which are merely 'very good').

[jlaurson]

Coming soon: Bruckner 2 with Giulini ! !

Yes, the 1877 Version.

Just got my copy... but have been too busy to listen to it properly... so I haven't listened to it at all, yet.

[NJ Joe]

Joe: that's entirely true , the first ever never leaves your memory. It's there to be rekindled at the slightest provocation... Right now I am listening to my 'first ever' Manfred  (Abravanel and the Utah Symphony back in the days of Candide Vinyls) and finding all the familiar signposts in place. Because of that recording I have come to love the work and like recordings that had different qualities. But then, the cd of that Abravanel interpretation (a new acquisition) was almost like an electroshock. It had all - and more - of what I love about the work than anything else I recall hearing.

The same is true of that Haitink First. It could be sentimental, but I honestly think that it has it all: orchestral differentiation (virtuosity is a meaningless term), conductorial authority, engineering that still packs a mean punch and an audible relish of that work's originality and sauciness.

This is how I would rate the Haitink interpretations+orchestral execution+engineering: on a scale of 5

0 - 4.5  . Reference : Marriner
1 - 5. Other reference : Neumann
2 - 4.5. References: Stein and Zender, Giulini
3 - 3.5. This is the first recorded version of the longer finale text by Oeser. It is also one of the earliest performances in the set. Its is excellent and powerful.It's just that there are so many versions available (or the shorter Nowak).
4 - Same remark. It dates back from 1965, and has been beaten to the post many times. Still, it boasts the  excellent orchestral execution of the COA.
5 - 4. Very good version, excellently played. Others have cast a much stronger shadow (fast: Suitner and Gielen) - slow: Klemperer or Celibidahe). From a concert hall perspective it is excellent.
6 - 4.5. A superb version. This cinderella among Bruckner symphonies has had a clutch of magnificent recordings - deserving of its own thread IMHO.
7 - 3.5. A later 1979 recording exists (it is better). Still, this early one is quite good in a purely symphonic way.
8 - 5. Sooooooo many recordings of the work exist. Another subject worthy of its own thread. Another 'first' and quite honestly, it holds up its own among the very, very best ever made. It is the best of all the (many) recordings Haitink made of the Eight.
9 - 3.5. The latter 1981 recording is better realized. This is a sequel to the van Beinum Amsterdam, in which Haitink probably played (as violinist in that orchestra's section).

In short: you get superb  orchestral playing, an audible interpretational link to the great Bruckner tradition of the Amsterdam orchestra, conducting that is always alert, energetic yet never excited, and great engineering (except for 4, 7 and 9, which are merely 'very good').

Thank you so much Andre, for taking the time to post your detailed reviews.  I enjoy Haitink and the COA in every recording I own.  Much appreciated!

[trung224]

Coming soon: Bruckner 2 with Giulini ! !

Jlaurson, can you provide some information about this performance? Is it the same performance on Testament CD?
Thanks
trung224

[jlaurson]

Coming soon: Bruckner 2 with Giulini ! !

Jlaurson, can you provide some information about this performance? Is it the same performance on Testament CD?
Thanks
trung224

Here's a bit more info, Trung:

Yes, it is the same performance. But it isn't the same recording. Testament went to the master and put it on CD. This time around they took the master, digitally copied it, cleaned it up, remastered it, and then put it on CD. I haven't the Testament issue around, so I can't comment on the difference in sound... but the people who published it just told me that they would have thought it rather pointless, if they had just slapped a version of the B2 on the market that was already around -- and that taking care with the remastering was an essential part of releasing the disc.

Cheers,

jfl

[Artem]

My first Brucner's symphony, that I'd listened to tonight. I wonder if it may be considered a good introduction to his symphonic compositions? I thought it was OK.

[asin]B000NPCMJE[/asin]

[Moonfish]

My first Brucner's symphony, that I'd listened to tonight. I wonder if it may be considered a good introduction to his symphonic compositions? I thought it was OK.

[asin]B000NPCMJE[/asin]

Artem!
I have not heard this specific recording, but I generally stay away from Rattle's renditions (of anything). For a first Bruckner exposure I would probably go with Jochum (probably 4 or 6), but I am sure many of the Bruckner "heads" here will bring on an avalanche of suggestions.   

[Ken B]

My first Brucner's symphony, that I'd listened to tonight. I wonder if it may be considered a good introduction to his symphonic compositions? I thought it was OK.

[asin]B000NPCMJE[/asin]

4 is absolutely the place to start, or 7. I don't know that recording, but unlike a certain piscine I like Rattle in general. For Bruckner 4 or 7 the following are all reliable
Karajan
Jochum
Skrowaczevsky
Tintner

[Artem]

I'll keep it in mind to check out the 7th Symphony. Thank you.

[snyprrr]

I probably am more Bruckner than Mahler, but I understand how different musics mix. I find the Denisov Symphony to be something of this mix (though, there's no real "human" music here- it's all angels speaking).