Bruckner's Abbey

[knight66]

Bruckner 9, Abbado, Lucerne forces.

I searched here feeling certain the eager Brucknerites/Brucknerarians here would have leapt on this performance and provided their opinions, but not a word as yet. The packaging tells us it is a live recording of Abbado's final performance, he died shortly afterwards. It also tells us that it was recorded over six days exactly a year ago. Whatever, it sounds of a piece. The concert was aptly valedictory, as this unfinished symphony was preceded by Schubert's Unfinished. Here, we have the Bruckner alone.

I have read various comments that retrospectively tie the atmosphere and the achievement in a semi-mystical way to the utter finality of the artist's work and life.

Many years ago I sat backstage on wooden steps listening to this piece. I was waiting to sing in the Bruckner Te Deum which was to substitute for the missing final movement. I was awe-struck at the powerful sonorities that physically moved through my body from the wooden platform I was sitting on. It was my first encounter with the piece and deeply impressed me, though I had no sensible evaluation of the quality of the performance. But much more than the Te Deum, which felt like a shouting match, that Ninth launched me into Bruckner's world.

I have a few recordings that have stuck with me, the live Karajan, Furtwangler's terrifying edge of the seat traversal, Colin Davis and some others. Abbado is sane, musical of course, proportionate and unhurried. He is containing, perhaps restraining the sheer drama that I think of as a vital element. The climaxes are there, but very civilised. Rather as André suggested earlier in this thread, perhaps it is too perfect. I did enjoy it, the playing is superb, strings make long phrases float like feathers. The finale is most beautiful and in many ways satisfying. I will return to it, but I don't think it is the epoch making performance that, I believe, sentiment has prompted some critics to suggest.

Mike

[Sergeant Rock]

Abbado is sane, musical of course, proportionate and unhurried. He is containing, perhaps restraining the sheer drama that I think of as a vital element. The climaxes are there, but very civilised. Rather as André suggested earlier in this thread, perhaps it is too perfect. I did enjoy it, the playing is superb, strings make long phrases float like feathers. The finale is most beautiful and in many ways satisfying. I will return to it, but I don't think it is the epoch making performance that, I believe, sentiment has prompted some critics to suggest.

Mike

You confirm what I would have guessed about this Ninth...and the reason I've never considered buying it. It's what I hear in other Abbado performances (much of his Mahler, for example): restrained drama, as though he's throttling the music.

Sarge

[André]

I recently listened to the 4th, 7th and 9th by Walter. I'd keep these over the whole corpus of Abbado's Bruckner any day. Not that the latter is bad. It is simply constipated emotionally in a way that finds its outlet in the music making. It is a rare feeling. It's like the music needs an enema.

[Cato]

I recently listened to the 4th, 7th and 9th by Walter. I'd keep these over the whole corpus of Abbado's Bruckner any day. Not that the latter is bad. It is simply constipated emotionally in a way that finds its outlet in the music making. It is a rare feeling. It's like the music needs an enema.

Greetings Andre'!  Do you have any information on whether Bruno Walter ever conducted all the symphonies?

I recall that he refused to conduct Mahler's Seventh Symphony, which he called "weak."  I wonder whether he knew the other Bruckner symphonies.

[André]

Hi Cato ! Besides the aforementioned, Walter only conducted the 8th, and rarely at that.

I guess the 6th didn't catch his fancy and yet, I melt at the prospect of a Walter 6th !

[knight66]

Yes, André, the music is indeed constipated, that is apt. I was equally disappointed with the Lucerne Mahler 2 which had praise heeped onto it. I wondered if it was my lack of discernment.

The musicians clearly loved working with Abbado. It reminds me of a recent concert of Strauss tone poems that I attended. The conductor was Maazel. The musicians were all smiling at the end, by no means a normal thing here. He was in a way a musician's musician, professional and good to work with, but the concert was boring, quite an achievement with the Alpine amd Also Sprach.

I have several times been tempted to get the Lucerne DVD Bruckner 5th, my favourite Bruckner symphony, I asssume you guys would advise against it, no miracles that day I suppose?

Mike

[André]

It may be quite interesting to witness the interaction between Abbado and his musicians. In a work as complex structurally as the Fifth, the visual aspect may certainly be counted as a plus factor.

That being said, I can think of at least half a dozen audio-only recordings that capture my attention from first note to last.

[Cato]

FWIW I saw them perform the 5th in London in 2011, and found it a remarkable, life-affirming experience, for once deserving of the over-used epithet luminous.  Yet many responded differently, and as strongly.  One hardcore Brucknerian with many years' dedicated service remarked disparagingly to me afterwards, "I expect you probably enjoyed that".  Before going on to comment, with disgust, that he supposed Bruckner's music would now become popular.

It may be quite interesting to witness the interaction between Abbado and his musicians. In a work as complex structurally as the Fifth, the visual aspect may certainly be counted as a plus factor.

That being said, I can think of at least half a dozen audio-only recordings that capture my attention from first note to last.

Hearing a concert in person - even if the interpretation or the work is mediocre, or if the work is not to one's liking - can be an interesting experience in spite of such factors...but may not counterbalance them by any means!

[Brian]

One hardcore Brucknerian with many years' dedicated service remarked disparagingly to me afterwards, "I expect you probably enjoyed that".

That must be the same fellow who sat in front of me at both Yannick Nezet-Seguin concerts I attended and made cruel, hilarious remarks about YNS's artistic abilities.

[André]

I was in the audience (in a church) where the eigth and ninth were recorded by YNS and his Orchestre Métropolitain. YNS certainely elevated the experience to a very high degree; and yet, as a 'seasoned and dedicated brucknerian', I couldn't help thinking this was an excellent lecture of a very difficult score. No mean achievement, to be sure. But I heard greater artistic experiences from Leitner, Decker, Blomstedt in Bruckner.

Beware of "seasoned and dedicated so-called" experts... They are as prejudiced as anybody. 

[André]

Short comparison between the Wand-Kölner RSO and Rögner Berlin RSO versions of the 7th symphony.

Both orchestras are excellent. The Cologne band is probably Germany's second best symphony orchestra. Wand is very good at shaping and driving home the last two movements. There is nothing wrong with his tempi in I and II, but the readings are slightly neutral. Non-committal, flabby, that kind of thing. It's not something actively wrong, just a degree of tension too low.

I under Rögner is 2 minutes shorter. The music blooms and erupts as the case demands (superb timpani roll, cresc. at the end of the recap (around 16:20). Then the coda has all that's missing in Wand's interpretation: a sense of coming home, of catharsis, a true climactic event. The Adagio is fast by the stopwatch (under 19 mins), but very slow in feeling. Tempo accelerates in the second theme before falling back to more rumination (splendid horns and trombones). And so it goes throughout. This Adagio lives and breathes. It is not a monument.

III and IV go really well too. The (East) Berlin orchestra has a full, rounded, deep tone that anchors the music tonally as it moves along swiftly. I won't say it surpasses Wand-Cologne, but it is different: burly and earthy vs athletic and theatrical.

The Wand is a very good interpretation, the Rögner an almost great one. Both are excellently played and recorded.

[Daverz]

Still recovering from yesterday's West Coast Brucknerthon.  Here's the playlist

• Symphonic Prelude: Blair/Moores School Symphony Orchestra (Abruckner.com CD, 2013)
• Symphony in F-minor: Young/Hamburg Philharmonic (Oehms Classics CD, 2013)
• Symphony No. 1: Jurowski/London Philharmonic (Air check, 2011)
• Symphony No. 0: Barenboim/Chicago Symphony Orchestra (Deutsche Grammophon CD, 1979)
• Symphony No. 2: Schmid/SWF Symphony Orchestra (Air check, 1965)
• Symphony No. 3: Maazel/Munich Philharmonic (Sony CD, 2012)
• Symphony No. 4: Hollreiser/Bamberg Symphony Orchestra (Grand Slam CD, 1959)
• Symphony No. 5: Kegel/Leipzig Radio Symphony Orchestra (Weitblick CD, 1977)
• Symphony No. 6: Stein/Vienna Philharmonic (Decca CD, 1972)
• Symphony No. 7: Mravinsky/Leningrad Philharmonic (EMI CD, 1967)
• Symphony No. 8: Furtwängler/Vienna Philharmonic (Grand Slam CD, 1944)
• Symphony No. 9: Abbado/Lucerne Festival Orchestra (Deutsche Grammophon CD, 2013)

[not edward]

Nice... I think the Stein 6th is a real under-the-radar gem.

I've been spending some time with the reconstructed finale of the 9th under BPO/Rattle. Much of it quite convincing to me, though the coda seems absurdly truncated. The chorale theme drawn from that strange string passage in the third movement is particularly effective.

[Daverz]

Bit much to ask after all that, but do you happen to recall what the sound quality was like on this one?

It was a transfer from a Unicorn Lp, so there was actually a bit of additional surface noise from the Lp.  Note that listening was over the host's vintage JBL speakers and there was a lot of party background noise.  Nice warm sound, but I just finished listening to the transfer in the M&A Bruckner box, and I hear no reason to prefer this Grand Slam CD.

I think the latest and greatest that Henry Fogel endorsed was in an Orfeo box, ORFEO 834118:

This is another Magnetofonkonzert, given only once. It is one of Furtwängler's greatest surviving Bruckner performances, and it has never sounded so good. It has had a spotty history. Early releases (Unicorn, Music & Arts, even DG) were plagued by what sounded like tape flutter, making sustained woodwinds sound as if they were underwater Many of those editions were also pitched a bit sharp. The first really listenable transfer was a two-disc Japanese EMI box, hard to find and very expensive. EMI eventually came up with something as good on one disc, and Pristine and Chibas improved on that somewhat. But Orfeo is better yet. The orchestral sound is more natural, with no sense of any kind of artificial boosting or enhancement of any part of the orchestral palette, and with a more naturally balanced frequency response from highs to lows.

[calyptorhynchus]

I've been spending some time with the reconstructed finale of the 9th under BPO/Rattle. Much of it quite convincing to me, though the coda seems absurdly truncated.

I used to think that too, but when I first heard the 8th that was my reaction as well, and the 7th isn't too long-winded in that department either.

I think the the most amazing revelation for the reconstructed finale is the fugue, no ever wrote a fugue like that before (or has since), it sounds like music from the 25th century.

[Daverz]

Thanks, you have answered exactly the question in my mind.  I have had that Grand Slam CD on a wishlist for some time but haven't bought it because ultimately I doubted it was any better than the M&A (which I also have.)

Out of interest, what did you think of the Abbado/Lucerne 9th?

Glad to see that Kegel 5th.  One of his 8ths is a permanent resident in my Top 5.

Unfortunately, I didn't make it to the 9th.  We started at 9AM, and I left around 9:30 pm, after the 8th.  More than 12 hours of craft beer, rich food, and Bruckner was nearly too much for me.

The Kegel 5th was one of the more popular recordings of the day, along with the Jurowski 1 and the Stein 6th.  The Mravinsky 7 was wild and unique.

[jlaurson]

Notes from the 2014 Salzburg Festival ( 17 )
Anton Bruckner Cycle • Bruckner VI



http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2014/08/notes-from-2014-salzburg-festival-17.html

[Daverz]

My kind of day.  But half a world away alas.

Well, if you're ever in the San Diego area on the Saturday before Labor Day...

And there's also the Brucknerathon (note the A), which is next weekend:

http://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/news/the2014eastcoastbr/ 

[not edward]

I used to think that too, but when I first heard the 8th that was my reaction as well, and the 7th isn't too long-winded in that department either.

I think the the most amazing revelation for the reconstructed finale is the fugue, no ever wrote a fugue like that before (or has since), it sounds like music from the 25th century.

What really comes through clearly to me is just how ambitious Bruckner's conception of the finale was.  Perhaps the original first movement of the Third can match it in terms of a Mahlerian "the symphony must contain the world," but I can't really think of anything else in Bruckner that does.

[calyptorhynchus]

I finally overcame my innate meanness and splashed out on this



I have to say that it's worth every penny (now out of the catalogue, s/hand prices start at $80).

I used to think I had a handle on my favourite recordings of the 8th and 9th, but these performances  have turned those upside down.

The Eighth is the most amazing Eighth I have ever heard, I thought Karajan was good, but Horenstein makes the brass roar like you've never heard it roar before. Karajan's recordings are big stuffed sofas compared to this recording. I thought it was all going to fall apart in the finale, I've never heard the Eighth finale sound so sectional.... at first, but then Horenstein performances his customary magic, and the ending draws the threads together like no other, I've never heard a more tumultuous and triumphant ending to this symphony.

The Ninth is ever better (the sound is better too). The first movement sounds awe-inspiring and completely connected and inevitable throughout, the scherzo is pure evil, the slow movement isn't particularly slow, but it has a soul-searching and desolate quality I have never heard to this extent.

I think tomorrow I will remove the applause from the end of the slow movement and listen to it together with Rattle's finale.