Bruckner's Abbey

[Cato]

I'm guessing that somewhere in these pages this has been mentioned before, but a great site that I've been frequenting and is very useful is www.abruckner.com
Its a complete discography of Bruckner's music, and seperates each version of them. It's been a real gem of a guide when exploring the 3rd and it's numerous editions and recordings.

Thank you!


From the website:

The abruckner.com website is now the official Internet home of the Bruckner Society of America. The organization has been legally reactivated as a non-profit organization. We are in the process of selecting members to the board of directors and we have completed our first project which was the digitalization of the society's journal, "Chord and Discord" which was published sporadically from 1932 to 1998. Those publications are now available in the Articles section of this website (see below).

Yes, they have scanned all the issues of Chord and Discord, a music journal that was published irregularly.  But, when it arrived, it was full of GREAT STUFF! 

I still have my copies from the 1950's and 1960's.  One of my favorite articles was not on Bruckner per se, but on Mahler's Das Klagende Lied by the great Jack Diether. 

Here is the pdf. link:

http://www.abruckner.com/Data/articles/thebrucknersociety2/1969/1969-c.pdf

And check out the Table of Contents from the 1950 issue!!!  Articles by Robert Simpson, Donald Mitchell, Desmond Taylor, and of course Jack Diether!  Are there things like this around today?

Instinct and Reason in Music - Ernest  M. Lert 1
Mahler's Eighth: The Hymn to Eros - Gabriel Engel 12
All in the Family - Philip Greeley Clapp 33
The Eighth Symphony of Bruckner -  Robert Simpson 42
Mahler's Third in Iowa City  - Charles L. Eble 56
An Introduction to Bruckner's Mass in E Minor - Jack Diether 60
Mahler Eighteen Years Afterward -  Parks Gran  66
The Songs of Alma Mahler  -Warren Storey Smith 74
Bruckner on Records - Herman Adler 79
Some Notes on Gustav Mahler (1860-1911) - Donald Mitchell 86
Bruckner and Mahler in Australia  - Wolfgang Wagner 92
The Length of Mahler - Desmond Shawe Taylor 104
Bruckner's Eighth in Chicago -  Charles L. Eble 107
Music of Gustav Mahler Ranks with the Greatest - Louis Biancolli 113
The Ninth Symphony of Anton Bruckner - Robert Simpson 11
Mahler's Eighth Cheered by 18,000 in Hollywood  - 118
Ovation for Mahler's Second by Tanglewood Audience - 127
American Premiere of Mahler's Tenth  - 129
New York City Opera Company as a National Cultural Institution - 130
A Memorable Elektra - Robert G. Grey 133
Symphonic Chronicle  137
A Memorable Ninth .

See:

http://www.abruckner.com/Data/articles/thebrucknersociety2/1950/1950-c.pdf

[Moonfish]

Earlier today [very, very loud while commuting]

Bruckner: Symphony No 6              New Philharmonia O/Klemperer

Amazing! This recording has now replaced my Jochum/DG recording as my ultimate (for now) performance of Bruckner's 6th.
The first two movement in particular were awe-inspiring with the horn sections literally weaving a soundscape that I didn't expect. Such detail! Such accents! Such power. The NPO builds the music so elegantly and with such immense force that it is impossible to resist being pulled along.  I was less intrigued by the last two movements, but I wonder if it will ever be possible to perform B6 better than in this recording? Perhaps, but I am not in a hurry to ever leave this one behind.  Never!   

from:
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[Cato]

I have  been perusing some of the issues of Chord and Discord and in the 1946 issue found an article called Bruckner: Simpleton or Mystic?

See pdf page 11:

http://www.abruckner.com/Data/articles/thebrucknersociety2/1946/1946-c.pdf

Scroll down to pdf pages 14-15: you will see an overlay of sorts.  The red notes are what Bruckner originally composed, according to the scholars who reconstructed the  scores.  It is astonishing what "editors" thought needed to be done to the scores!!!  As the author says, the best that can be said for the Schalks  and Loewe and others is that "they meant well."   0:)

[North Star]

Scroll down to pdf pages 14-15: you will see an overlay of sorts.  The red notes are what Bruckner originally composed, according to the scholars who reconstructed the  scores.  It is astonishing what "editors" thought needed to be done to the scores!!!  As the author says, the best that can be said for the Schalks  and Loewe and others is that "they meant well."   0:)

Easy is the descent into editorship, to paraphrase Milton.   

[Cato]

Easy is the descent into editorship, to paraphrase Milton.   

Amen!  0:)

I once published a short story in a magazine, but had to endure the absolutely incompetent interference of an editor who thought she had written my story and could mangle every sentence.  Not one idea or change she had come up with made any sense.  I compromised on a few things, held my nose on some, and held fast on others.

I have never found anyone who thought her "version" (i.e. travesty) was better than my original.

[André]

These last few days I re-re-re listened to symphonies 5 and 7 from the Klemperer box. In the case of # 5, a recording I have had on vinyl for some 35 years, it was just a a confirmation that this must be THE Bruckner recording of the Century. Klemperer at his slow, incisive, pugnacious best, the orchestra screeching, snarling, emoting like there was no tomorrow, all caught in resplendently pellucid sonics by the engineers in London's famed Kingsway Hall.

The 7th is more of the same (orchestra, engineers, venue), but this time it's the music that is more elusive. As good as it gets, the 7th is a work that is slightly harder to muster enthusiasm for. Beauty, elevation, elegiac feelings, nobility: yes. Klemperer and the orchestra are totally adept at conveying it all.

[Brian]

Earlier today [very, very loud while commuting]

Bruckner: Symphony No 6              New Philharmonia O/Klemperer

Amazing! This recording has now replaced my Jochum/DG recording as my ultimate (for now) performance of Bruckner's 6th.
The first two movement in particular were awe-inspiring with the horn sections literally weaving a soundscape that I didn't expect. Such detail! Such accents! Such power. The NPO builds the music so elegantly and with such immense force that it is impossible to resist being pulled along.  I was less intrigued by the last two movements, but I wonder if it will ever be possible to perform B6 better than in this recording? Perhaps, but I am not in a hurry to ever leave this one behind.  Never!   

Well, when we did our Bruckner Sixth blind listening competition, Klemperer was in the top two! Only Celibidache in Munich beat him out, and honestly, it's a matter of taste. I love them both dearly. Since that comparison, I've listened to a whole bunch of other recordings, and these three round out my top five: Dohnanyi/Cleveland, Nagano/DSO Berlin, Barenboim/Berlin PO.

Of course there are many more recordings to hear on this very happy quest!

These last few days I re-re-re listened to symphonies 5 and 7 from the Klemperer box. In the case of # 5, a recording I have had on vinyl for some 35 years, it was just a a confirmation that this must be THE Bruckner recording of the Century. Klemperer at his slow, incisive, pugnacious best, the orchestra screeching, snarling, emoting like there was no tomorrow, all caught in resplendently pellucid sonics by the engineers in London's famed Kingsway Hall.

The 7th is more of the same (orchestra, engineers, venue), but this time it's the music that is more elusive. As good as it gets, the 7th is a work that is slightly harder to muster enthusiasm for. Beauty, elevation, elegiac feelings, nobility: yes. Klemperer and the orchestra are totally adept at conveying it all.

Funny - my opinion of the two symphonies themselves couldn't be more opposite from yours. The Seventh's finale is "elusive" - I don't really have a clue what he's doing there. But to me the first three movements are very direct, and of course very beautiful. I'll have to listen to Klemp's 5th, because the 5th is a symphony I do not understand at all, and do not like either (except, of course, for the last 2 minutes!).

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Funny - my opinion of the two symphonies themselves couldn't be more opposite from yours. The Seventh's finale is "elusive" - I don't really have a clue what he's doing there. But to me the first three movements are very direct, and of course very beautiful. I'll have to listen to Klemp's 5th, because the 5th is a symphony I do not understand at all, and do not like either (except, of course, for the last 2 minutes!).

I had the same problem with the 5th. Wrote about it a few pages back. After Jochum (EMI), Thielemann, Chailly, Sinopoli (Youtube), I still couldn't make much headway.

Enter Dohnanyi. Lightening struck and now I'm a convert.

[kishnevi]

Easy is the descent into editorship, to paraphrase Milton.   

Vergil, actually.  (Surprised Cato didn't catch that!)

Easy is the descent into Avernus,
But the return!...There is the labor, there is the work!

[Jo498]

I think the 7th (but especially the first movement) is one of the most accessible (and most beautiful) things by Bruckner. The 7th finale is very compact but not all that complicated I think. The first "jagged" theme with the dotted rhythm is a cousin of the first movement's main theme. Then there are two more important themes, one quiet and "chorale-like", mostly in the strings and a dramatic one (again dotted rhythm) in the brass. For the recap the order of themes is turned around (so it starts with the mighty brass theme) and in the coda the beginning of the first movement's main theme re-enters for "apotheosis". (That's a very rough sketch from memory but in any case I find this one of the most accessible Bruckner finales.)

I have had a fascination for the 5th since I first heard it (I think it was the first I bought on CD as a teenager in about 1990). But I think it is a more thorny and less attractive piece than the 7th.

[Cato]

I have had a fascination for the 5th since I first heard it (I think it was the first I bought on CD as a teenager in about 1990). But I think it is a more thorny and less attractive piece than the 7th.

Check this comment:

I had the same problem with the 5th. Wrote about it a few pages back. After Jochum (EMI), Thielemann, Chailly, Sinopoli (Youtube), I still couldn't make much headway.

Enter Dohnanyi. Lightning struck and now I'm a convert.

I was present with a group of high school students at a Cleveland Orchestra performance of the Fifth in the 1990's.  I was not a little worried that the work might prove too much for novices, but under Dohnanyi it turned out that my fears were unjustified.  My students were the first ones on their feet for a standing ovation at the end!

So perhaps the right interpretation for Jo498 just has not tickled the ears yet.  Or it may be a matter of time: some day things might fall together and you will wonder why you ever had trouble with the work.

Vergil, actually.  (Surprised Cato didn't catch that!)

Easy is the descent into Avernus,
But the return!...There is the labor, there is the work!

Many thanks for catching the reference!  The line sounded like something Milton - or Dante - could have written, both of whom of course have Vergil as an ancestor.  0:)

[Jo498]

I meant to say that I like the 5th myself. But I can very well understand that someone (especially if new to Bruckner) finds it more difficult than almost all the others. And I wanted to express with my last sentence that I think that this is due to actual features of the music, like less obviously attractive melodies, lots of demonstrative polyphony etc.

[MishaK]

I was present with a group of high school students at a Cleveland Orchestra performance of the Fifth in the 1990's.  I was not a little worried that the work might prove too much for novices, but under Dohnanyi it turned out that my fears were unjustified.  My students were the first ones on their feet for a standing ovation at the end!

I borrowed that glorious Dohnyani/Cleveland B5 from a friend months ago and haven't returned it yet.  It has a place of honor in my disc changer. Until I find a copy of my own. Why are the best things OOP?

[TheGSMoeller]

I borrowed that glorious Dohnyani/Cleveland B5 from a friend months ago and haven't returned it yet.  It has a place of honor in my disc changer. Until I find a copy of my own. Why are the best things OOP?

Some highly affordable copies in the Amazon MP if you're interested, MishaK.

[MishaK]

Thanks for the tip. Looks like my friend will get this (and the B9) back sooner.

Misha

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I was present with a group of high school students at a Cleveland Orchestra performance of the Fifth in the 1990's.  I was not a little worried that the work might prove too much for novices, but under Dohnanyi it turned out that my fears were unjustified.  My students were the first ones on their feet for a standing ovation at the end!

I would've loved to have been one of your students on that day! Or the chauffeur.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Speaking of Dohnányi, I just recently listened to his recording of the 8th, w/Cleveland of course. Which puts it in direct competition with Boulez's sizzling account, which is a fave of mine.

In a word, it's phenomenal! Like every other Dohnányi/Cleveland/Bruckner recording I've heard (all but the 4th) the sense of an organic unfolding is strong. No tacked-on frills, swells, etc...it's all about the pacing. Pacing, pacing, pacing. But make no mistake, there's an alertness which keeps every gesture, every phrase invigorated.

Interestingly, Dohnányi and Boulez are very similar timing-wise, except for the adagio:

                          I               II              III             IV

Dohnányi         16:16        13:53         29:02        22:59

Boulez             15:08        13:39         24:52        22:19


But conception-wise the two, as expected, have little in common. Boulez has the high tingle-factor, given that the VPO is most likely zotting in on every Boulez micro-command, and responding with like fervor.

The Clevelanders though are no slouches, yet the thrills come more from a sense of a unified, tectonic shifting of phrases. Whole chunks just break off and move on command to their new resting places. Like musical chairs...only not.

Then overlaying everything is that trademark Dohnányi/Cleveland warmth. Amazing.

I wouldn't dare pit one against the other, though. I'll leave the grudge match for another day.   

[Cato]

Speaking of Dohnányi, I just recently listened to his recording of the 8th, w/Cleveland of course. Which puts it in direct competition with Boulez's sizzling account, which is a fave of mine.

In a word, it's phenomenal! Like every other Dohnányi/Cleveland/Bruckner recording I've heard (all but the 4th) the sense of an organic unfolding is strong. No tacked-on frills, swells, etc...it's all about the pacing. Pacing, pacing, pacing. But make no mistake, there's an alertness which keeps every gesture, every phrase invigorated.

The Clevelanders though are no slouches, yet the thrills come more from a sense of a unified, tectonic shifting of phrases. Whole chunks just break off and move on command to their new resting places. Like musical chairs...only not.

Then overlaying everything is that trademark Dohnányi/Cleveland warmth. Amazing.

Many thanks for the review!  I will look into these recordings!  Your description of the Dohnanyi/Cleveland reminds me of comments made about the conductor Carl Schuricht and his Bruckner style.  You might look into a Schuricht Ninth, if it is around these days.

[MishaK]

Many thanks for the review!  I will look into these recordings!  Your description of the Dohnanyi/Cleveland reminds me of comments made about the conductor Carl Schuricht and his Bruckner style.  You might look into a Schuricht Ninth, if it is around these days.

Or more importantly, Schuricht's awesome 8th with VPO as well as his 3rd. The 9th is good, but not nearly as of-a-piece as his 8th and 3rd.

[North Star]

Many thanks for the review!  I will look into these recordings!  Your description of the Dohnanyi/Cleveland reminds me of comments made about the conductor Carl Schuricht and his Bruckner style.  You might look into a Schuricht Ninth, if it is around these days.

They certainly are around.
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