Author Topic: Bruckner's Abbey  (Read 635525 times)

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Offline DavidW

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3720 on: May 16, 2022, 05:27:58 AM »
I sometimes tend to find the brass overwhelming in Bruckner

Especially in the 5th where I feel that it can veer towards bombastic.

On the Skrowacezski is this with Saarbrucken or the LPO?

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3721 on: May 16, 2022, 05:14:51 PM »

I was very impressed by Harnoncourt's. Not sure if I ever listened properly to this. This was by some margin the most convincing and dramatic of them (even before Schuricht). NH seems also the only one to "get" the Austrian rustic touch in some passages of the (very fast) scherzo and also in subsidiary themes in the other movements. It's the best post-Beethoven Harnoncourt I remember hearing (admittedly, I have not heard all)

I have to re-listen to Harnoncourt's Bruckner 4 and 9 (don't have his 3 and 7).


Thanks for the comments!

I once listened to a fairly lively Klemperer performance of the opening minutes of the Fifth Symphony, but wondered that the key seemed higher than it should have been.

Ahh, my little sister had changed the record player's speed to 45 RPM!   0:)
 
After that, things were not so brisk after all!  ;)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

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Online Jo498

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3722 on: May 16, 2022, 10:04:35 PM »
Especially in the 5th where I feel that it can veer towards bombastic.

On the Skrowacezski is this with Saarbrucken or the LPO?
Saarbrücken. The 5th IS bombastic, especially in the finale and it is supposed to be. ;) That's why I want some brass here, while I prefer it more integrated in the 6th or 7th.
The introduction to the first movement is also unique in Bruckner. My first recording was the 1970s Wand/WDR that is rather rough and violent in the brass.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3723 on: May 17, 2022, 01:58:43 AM »

Saarbrücken. The 5th IS bombastic, especially in the finale and it is supposed to be. ;) That's why I want some brass here,


Amen!


Somewhere, many years ago, I read that there was a conductor (one of the Schalk brothers?) who hired 5 or 6 brass players, who were to be reserved for the last minutes of the Finale!

A good trick!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline calyptorhynchus

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3724 on: May 17, 2022, 12:02:03 PM »
Talking of bombast, I was listening to a talk on Mahler's 7th on BBC Radio 3 c.1981 and the presenter said in a very posh British voice: 'Critics cannot decide whether the finale of Mahler's 7th is bombastic, or a parody of bombast.' I nearly fell off my chair laughing.

(NB, it's a parody of bombast).

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3725 on: May 17, 2022, 10:27:28 PM »
Amen!


Somewhere, many years ago, I read that there was a conductor (one of the Schalk brothers?) who hired 5 or 6 brass players, who were to be reserved for the last minutes of the Finale!

A good trick!

Arnold Bax writing in his autobiography "Farewell My Youth" (published in the mid 1940's) wrote the following description;

"At these concerts [Dresden 1906] I also listened to a symphony of Bruckner [No.5].  Beyond its 'heavenly length' I can remember nothing of it except its conclusion.  The finale was cast in the shape of a formidably dull fugue, and as it showed signs of approaching its peroration I thought to myself that seldom or never had I heard any orchestra pile up such a prodigious volume of sound.  It was at this precise moment that an army corps of brass instruments, which must have been crouching furtively behind the percussion, arose in their might and weighted in over the top with a chorale, probably intended by the pious composer as an invocation to 'Der alte Deutsche Gott' ".

Don't think Bax is a Bruckner fan..... On the previous page he describes Mahler as "eccentric, long-winded, muddle-headed, and yet always interesting composer".  Not sure the court of history will find in Bax's favour there either!!

Online Jo498

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3726 on: May 17, 2022, 10:53:55 PM »
Somewhere, many years ago, I read that there was a conductor (one of the Schalk brothers?) who hired 5 or 6 brass players, who were to be reserved for the last minutes of the Finale!

A good trick!
I thought there was even a tradition to place 12! extra brass elsewhere in the hall for the finale ("the 12 apostles") but I cannot find more about this, so I probably imagined this or it was a satire.

the 5th's finale is a bit too long and overambitious but still impressive. I have never seen this one live but the 8th is even longer, as we know, with a similarly huge finale and it is overwhelming in live performance.
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3727 on: May 18, 2022, 05:04:06 AM »
I thought there was even a tradition to place 12! extra brass elsewhere in the hall for the finale ("the 12 apostles") but I cannot find more about this, so I probably imagined this or it was a satire.

the 5th's finale is a bit too long and overambitious but still impressive. I have never seen this one live but the 8th is even longer, as we know, with a similarly huge finale and it is overwhelming in live performance.

Schalk started the practice of augmenting the brass in the coda but apparently only Jochum continued it in modern times. Come the coda the regular brass players were inevitably tired and unable to produce the full volume Jochum wanted.

https://multivariate-life.blogspot.com/2011/04/eugen-jochums-11-apostles.html

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3728 on: May 19, 2022, 12:52:02 PM »

Schalk started the practice of augmenting the brass in the coda but apparently only Jochum continued it in modern times. Come the coda the regular brass players were inevitably tired and unable to produce the full volume Jochum wanted.


https://multivariate-life.blogspot.com/2011/04/eugen-jochums-11-apostles.html



Yes, that was it!  The Eleven (or Twelve) Apostles!

I wanted to attend, but too many other things intervened: last Sunday the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra played the Bruckner Seventh Symphony.


Here is a rave review:


Quote

...Louis Langrée, who conducted the Seventh with the CSO in 2014, was clearly in his element. He was completely immersed in every phrase, yet never lost sight of the work’s expansive architecture. The music was warmly conducted, and every phrase breathed, yet all was anchored with a firm pulse.

The first movement, itself large in scale, was anchored by glowing sonorities in the strings playing unending tremolos. Textures were transparent, and intimate moments were beautifully shaped. The ascent to its peaks were gradual. A glorious summation was reached in a stunning display of timpani rolls (Patrick Schleker).

The heart of the work is the second movement Adagio, a memorial to Bruckner’s idol Richard Wagner, who died while he was writing it. How wonderful it was to hear the CSO’s French horns and tuba with the quartet of Wagner tubas. They made a sound like sun streaming through stained glass. The trombones, too, performed seamlessly in the movement’s climax, which quotes a theme from Bruckner’s “Te Deum.” Langrée’s reading of the lyrical themes was deeply felt and he cultivated a rich sound in the strings.

The Scherzo contrasted with its buoyant, energized quality, centered by a serene and gentle trio. The finale caught the feeling of sheer joy, its climaxes building to the final rousing, brass-filled finish. ...



https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2022/05/15/bruckerners-seventh-a-glowing-summation-to-csos.html

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline LKB

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3729 on: May 19, 2022, 01:23:00 PM »
A lovely review, makes me wish l had been there.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3730 on: May 25, 2022, 09:10:31 AM »

A lovely review, makes me wish l had been there.


Yes, I was hoping to be present, especially since disease-mask requirements are gone, but things did not work out, unfortunately.

This came to my attention: Bruckner performed at Royal Albert Hall on its massive pipe organ.

"Bonobo" is not a simian   :o  , but an Englishman named "Simon Green."   8)

Quote

Bonobo has performed his hit track "Otomo" with the 151-year old pipe organ at the Royal Albert Hall as he closed a five day residency at the historic venue.

Check out the video below!

A spontaneous collaboration with one of the Hall's Associate Artists, organist Anna Lapwood, the performance came about when Bonobo - AKA Simon Green - heard Anna practicing the night before, his band writing an organ part for her by the afternoon.

Simon Green said: "It was an incredible moment and a fitting end to the five night residency. Being able to incorporate the organ into the performance really connected the idea of where we all are and how an electronic show could fully integrate into the space of the Hall. I'm extremely grateful to have met Anna and her contribution to the performance was a truly live affirming experience!"

The Hall's pipe organ, known as the "Voice of Jupiter", was the largest instrument in the world when it was built. It has since been expanded to 9,999 pipes and marked its 150th anniversary last year along with the venue. Since 1871 it has been played by the likes of Pink Floyd, Frank Zappa, Anton Bruckner, and Camille Saint-Saëns among others...


See:

https://www.broadwayworld.com/uk-regional/article/WATCH-Bonobo-Features-9999-Pipe-Organ-To-Close-Royal-Albert-Halls-First-Electronic-Residency-20220524
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3731 on: July 01, 2022, 12:35:03 PM »
This performance was recently recommended to me:


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3nl40ljhXro" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3nl40ljhXro</a>


It has 6 5-star reviews on Amazon, which is not a bad sign!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline Daverz

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3732 on: July 01, 2022, 01:14:57 PM »
This performance was recently recommended to me:


<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/3nl40ljhXro" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/3nl40ljhXro</a>


It has 6 5-star reviews on Amazon, which is not a bad sign!

Stan in the man.

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3733 on: July 01, 2022, 01:51:09 PM »
I have the Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken Bruckner cycle still in shrink that I've been meaning to get into when I have some time to give them the proper attention they deserve.

It was Skrowaczewski conducting both of Chopin's Piano Concerti that really made me appreciate him as a conductor.
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong

Offline DavidW

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3734 on: July 01, 2022, 02:20:09 PM »
I have the Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken Bruckner cycle still in shrink that I've been meaning to get into when I have some time to give them the proper attention they deserve.

You have to open it right now!  It is so amazing!!  Just try the 7th.

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3735 on: July 01, 2022, 04:14:09 PM »
I have the Skrowaczewski/Saarbrücken Bruckner cycle still in shrink that I've been meaning to get into when I have some time to give them the proper attention they deserve.

It was Skrowaczewski conducting both of Chopin's Piano Concerti that really made me appreciate him as a conductor.



You have to open it right now!  It is so amazing!!  Just try the 7th.




That is one powerful recommendation!  8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Offline hvbias

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3736 on: July 03, 2022, 03:46:09 AM »
You have to open it right now!  It is so amazing!!  Just try the 7th.

Looking forward to that since that is my favorite Bruckner symphony. But for me I can't think of anything more daunting than a Bruckner cycle, maybe listening to The Ring all the way through. I also (correctly or incorrectly) view Bruckner as a composer for choral works that just happened to write symphonies so my expectations can be different, things like excitement are low on my list of priorities so it restricts the performances I tend to gravitate towards, making sense of the flow, structure, "spirituality" are things I tend to value more.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2022, 03:47:45 AM by hvbias »
"I feel very strongly about Chopin — I just love him" - Fou Ts'ong