Bruckner's Abbey

Started by Lilas Pastia, April 06, 2007, 07:15:30 AM

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Cato

Has anyone heard this recording?






I assume that the conductor "Karl Richter" is the same as the organist.

It has one rave, albeit eccentric, review on Amazon.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

vers la flamme

Quote from: Cato on September 12, 2022, 02:24:51 PM
Has anyone heard this recording?






I assume that the conductor "Karl Richter" is the same as the organist.

It has one rave, albeit eccentric, review on Amazon.

The same Karl Richter who recorded a bunch of great Bach with his Münchener Bach-Orchester und -Chor? I didn't realize he performed anything else.

Jo498

It's the same organist/harpsichordist/conductor. Richter recorded also Händel, Haydn, CPE Bach, Beethoven's C major mass and I am pretty sure he conducted an even broader range music.
Tout le malheur des hommes vient d'une seule chose, qui est de ne savoir pas demeurer en repos, dans une chambre.
- Blaise Pascal

Cato

Quote from: Jo498 on September 12, 2022, 11:09:56 PM
It's the same organist/harpsichordist/conductor. Richter recorded also Händel, Haydn, CPE Bach, Beethoven's C major mass and I am pretty sure he conducted an even broader range music.

DGG issued a set of nearly 100 CD's with his recordings: he died at 54 in 1981.

From Wikipedia:

Quote

...In 1971, Richter suffered a heart attack and thereafter suffered increasing problems with his vision. Consequently, he began to memorize as many works as he could before he might lose his sight. Eventually he had eye surgery, of which he was initially skeptical but which was effective.[7]

When asked about the energy-draining self-imposed burden of work he set himself, he would reply "My time is now" and "We Richters don't grow old."[1]

In the 1970s, as the period-instrument revival was burgeoning, according to Nicholas Anderson, "with the growing interest in historically aware performance ... Richter's values were questioned"[citation needed]. In a hotel in Munich in 1981 he suffered a fatal heart attack, and was buried in the Enzenbühl cemetery in Zürich eight days later....



Bruckner recordings are not mentioned in this article, but it does say that CD 93 offers him conducting the Haydn Symphonies 94 and 101.

I was able to find the recording of the Fourth Symphony and listened to it early this morning: it is an excellent performance which brings out nice details sometimes smothered in other recordings.  Richter knows how to milk the crescendos! 8)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

LKB

I'd be interested to hear Richter's Bruckner. I trusted his Bach, decades ago, and he had standards as high as anyone's.
Mit Flügeln, die ich mir errungen...

Cato

Quote from: LKB on September 13, 2022, 09:21:57 AM
I'd be interested to hear Richter's Bruckner. I trusted his Bach, decades ago, and he had standards as high as anyone's.


e.g.


https://www.youtube.com/v/TGZkPsTtHkM



Hear a Bruckner motet under his baton:

https://www.youtube.com/v/SlkUehxT9L0


"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

Another Karl, but with a "C" this time!   8)

Via the TESTAMENT label: a live 1964 recording with Carl Schuricht and the Berlin Philharmonic: one of the comments from a listener would easily start a rhubarb*!


"Schuricht drives the Berliner Philharmoniker with natural tone. If Karajan, Not.   :D


* "Rhubarb" in this context is American baseball slang for a big argument!



https://www.youtube.com/v/wSAbtjMeArg
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Scion7

When EMI issued the 1975-1980 series of recordings by Jochum/Staatskapell Dresden on vinyl, did anyone see a No.4 domestically? Outside of the badly packaged East German issues in the 80's, the only 'original' of that series I ever came across was a Japanese issue.  Granted, I came to these somewhat late and may have missed it.  The original EMI's all had Jochum on the cover in various locations.
(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Scion7

Listened to it again tonight.  Although not representative of his later style, I've always found this to be a cracking little ditty!  Anyone else love this work, and like this performance?

(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Roasted Swan

Yes for sure - and I'm one of those superficial thrill-seekers ( ;) ) who just loves the sound of the CSO in this repertoire.  One of my great concert-going regrets is that I never saw the Chicago SO in their pomp with Dale Clevinger, Adolf Herseth et al.  This is a really interesting article about the evolution of the CSO brass sound;

https://cso.org/experience/article/3477/the-essence-of-the-cso-brass-sound-teamwork-a

Of course Solti often gets credited/blamed/dismissed (you choose!) for encouraging this on his many and various recordings with the orchestra.  The truth is of course he was just part of the evolution of this very specific style and musical approach.  I like both his Mahler and Bruckner cycles with Chicago even though these days its easy and popular to dismiss them as noise over substance.

Scion7

Quote from: Roasted Swan on November 24, 2022, 12:34:37 AM... even though these days its easy and popular to dismiss them as noise over substance.

Which is just so much rubbish.  His recording of Mahler's Song of the Earth is excellent, for example.
(Bruckner's) is the career of a poor village boy ... The one and only really surprising thing about him was that after completing his career as an organist he suddenly began to compose music with a range of vision which in such a man would appear quite incongruous.

Cato

Quote from: Scion7 on November 23, 2022, 08:05:11 PMListened to it again tonight.  Although not representative of his later style, I've always found this to be a cracking little ditty!  Anyone else love this work, and like this performance?



The Symphony #0 is an excellent work: I have told the story of hearing it live in a cathedral with the Toledo Symphony Orchestra under Stefan Sanderling.

They made the case that this was no practice symphony, but a symphony that was echt Bruckner!

Concerning the Symphony #4 by Eugen Jochum/Dresden from the 1970's on vinyl: I only know the performance from the CD set, which is top-rate!


"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

calyptorhynchus

Remember that Die Nullte was actually composed between No.1 and No.2. I like it, although I think it isn't quite as distinguished in its ideas and structure as No.1, so I understand why Bruckner 'nullified' it.

ultralinear

#3813
Quote from: Cato on November 24, 2022, 01:23:54 PMThe Symphony #0 is an excellent work: I have told the story of hearing it live in a cathedral with the Toledo Symphony Orchestra under Stefan Sanderling.

They made the case that this was no practice symphony, but a symphony that was echt Bruckner!

I've heard it in concert a couple of times, in Dresden: one with Marc Minkowski conducting the Staatskapelle, the other Kitajenko and the Philharmonie.  Both took it more slowly than I'd prefer, which for Minkowski might have been explicable in terms of the Frauenkirche's long reverberation time, but less so for the even slower Kitajenko in the Kulturpalast. :-\

Cato

Quote from: calyptorhynchus on November 24, 2022, 01:52:34 PMRemember that Die Nullte was actually composed between No.1 and No.2. I like it, although I think it isn't quite as distinguished in its ideas and structure as No.1, so I understand why Bruckner 'nullified' it.



Yes, it was not really #0, but is a fine work.  Agreed that #1 wins any comparison, nevertheless, "I like it" also!

Quote from: ultralinear on November 25, 2022, 01:02:57 AMI've heard it in concert a couple of times, in Dresden: one with Marc Minkowski conducting the Staatskapelle, the other Kitajenko and the Philharmonie.  Both took it more slowly than I'd prefer, which for Minkowski might have been explicable in terms of the Frauenkirche's long reverberation time, but less so for the even slower Kitajenko in the Kulturpalast. :-\


Are they perhaps influenced by the Celibidache Cult?   ;)   0:)
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato




The 2021-22 revision is to be premiered by the London Philharmonic Orchestra under Robin Ticciati, London, 30 November 2022.

Do any of our members who live in England plan on going to this?

Here is a MIDI version:

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

calyptorhynchus

#3816
Interesting, Phillips was part of the team that did the performing edition that Rattle recorded. I think he disagreed that the last pages of the finale would have a counterpoint of the themes from all the movements, saying that this was an idea imported from the Eighth. However in the previous performing version this counterpoint occurs before the end, unlike the Eighth, whereas the Ninth in their version ends with other material.

Please correct this if I am wrong.  :)

Ps Phillips is an Australian!

ultralinear

Quote from: Cato on November 28, 2022, 03:14:48 PMDo any of our members who live in England plan on going to this?

Yes.  :)



vandermolen

Quote from: Cato on November 28, 2022, 03:14:48 PMThe 2021-22 revision is to be premiered by the London Philharmonic Orchestra under Robin Ticciati, London, 30 November 2022.

Do any of our members who live in England plan on going to this?

Here is a MIDI version:

Not me. It's a workday and I probably wouldn't be able to get up to London in time, especially with the trains invariably on strike.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Cato

Quote from: Cato on November 28, 2022, 03:14:48 PMThe 2021-22 revision is to be premiered by the London Philharmonic Orchestra under Robin Ticciati, London, 30 November 2022

Do any of our members who live in England plan on going to this?

Here is a MIDI version:
.







Quote from: ultralinear on Today at 12:36:16 AMYes.  :)






Great!  Please write a review for us!  8)


Quote from: calyptorhynchus on November 28, 2022, 08:37:39 PMInteresting, Phillips was part of the team that did the performing edition that Rattle recorded. I think he disagreed that the last pages of the finale would have a counterpoint of the themes from all the movements, saying that this was an idea imported from the Eighth. However in the previous performing version this counterpoint occurs before the end, unlike the Eighth, whereas the Ninth in their version ends with other material.

Please correct this if I am wrong.  :)

Ps Phillips is an Australian!



Yes, he is!

I believe your summary of the situation is correct: Professor Phillips explains everything in an essay with his revised performing version.

I found the program notes for tomorrow's concert online: here is a salient excerpt...

Quote


"...We can now reconstruct the coda even more accurately.

A mysteriously circling ascent led into the final chorale
statement for which we have both the allusion in the
reprise as well as a late sketch. Three remarkable drafts,
dated May 1896, for the rest of the coda are now
included in their entirety, the restored passage allowing
the themes of first movement and Finale to combine in
symbolic demonstration of the underlying unity of the
whole work. This culminates in a terrifyingly dissonant
passage before conclusively cadencing into the 'Glory'
of D major: Salvation.


Bruckner stated that he would introduce here 'with great
power' a theme prefigured in an earlier movement, an
'Alleluja [...], in order that the symphony end with a hymn
of praise to the dear Lord'. This can be convincingly
identified as the D major entry of the trumpets at bar 5
of the Adagio; numerous clues suggest how Bruckner
would have transformed it into his concluding 'hymn of
praise'.
Programme notes by Professor John Phillips...




See: (Scroll down to download the PDF file)

https://lpo.org.uk/event/bruckners-ninth/


And this version of the MIDI score has an essay about this revision at the One Second mark!

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)