Bruckner's Abbey

[calyptorhynchus]

While emptying a room last week that I've used as a store for the past 20 years, in amongst all the boxes of books I discovered ... not one but two copies of Robert Simpson's irreplaceable The Essence of Bruckner (for years my go-to guide to all things Brucknerian)

Although I am a great fan of Robert Simpson it is important to remember that the edition of his Bruckner book that is widespread in libraries &c was written in the early 1960s before the issue of Bruckner's revisions was widely aired. Simpson rewrote this book for the 1993 edition (published by Gollancz in the UK), but this was not as widely circulated or read as the earlier edition and is difficult to come by. However it is the edition that best ventilates the edition issue and I recommend it, rather than the earlier version (oh the irony, for Bruckner listen to the earliest version (generally), with the Simpson book read the revised version!).

[Cato]

- and I really do not remember buying it, let alone ever trying to read it - this 1947 study by one of Schoenberg's pupils, which looks a little forbidding but the premise is intriguing so I think I might give it a go.  

It is an intriguing book!  Dika Newlin was a child prodigy, brought to Schoenberg c. age 10, and she almost instantly annoyed him with her perfect pitch and other abilities! 

However, she is also an example of the child prodigy whose promise was not quite matched (depending on your point of view) by the results of her later life.

As a professor of music, she certainly had some valuable accomplishments.  As a creative artist, things did not work out for the best, and her eccentricities in later life seemed to prevent success at that point...unless becoming a 60-something punk rocker is considered an accomplishment, to which (again) some might say "Yes, it is!" 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0233572/

[Mahlerbruck]

My first ever Recording/CD i have heard of music of Anton Bruckner was Symphony no. 5 conducted by Eugene Ormandy and Philadelphia Orchestra.

Now i have heard more Symphony no.5 with other conductors and Orchestra's it is not my favourite or best performance. But i still like it!

What is your opinion about this performance of Eugene Ormandy.

[Roasted Swan]

My first ever Recording/CD i have heard of music of Anton Bruckner was Symphony no. 5 conducted by Eugene Ormandy and Philadelphia Orchestra.

Now i have heard more Symphony no.5 with other conductors and Orchestra's it is not my favourite or best performance. But i still like it!

What is your opinion about this performance of Eugene Ormandy.

I'm a big fan of Ormandy/Philadelphia recordings but NOT of this particular disc.  Well played of course but somehow rather superficial - one of my least favourite Ormandy discs of all - sorry!

[brewski]

Brucknerthon XXIV playlist:

- Overture in G minor: Hager/SWF Symphony Orchestra (Amati CD, 1988)

- Symphony 1: Järvi/Frankfurt Radio Symphony Orchestra (RCA SACD, 2013)

- Symphony 0: Poschner/Linz Bruckner Orchestra (Capriccio CD, 2021)

- Symphony 2: Zender/SWF Symphony Orchestra (Amati CD, 1990)

- Symphony 3: Asahina/New Japan Philharmonic Orchestra (Fontec/Tower Records SACD, 1996)

- Symphony 4: Dohnányi/Philharmonia Orchestra (Signum CD, 2008)

- Symphony 5: Haitink/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (BPO Blu-ray Audio, 2011)

- Symphony 6: Blomstedt/Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra (Querstand SACD, 2008)

- Symphony 7: Schuricht/Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra (Testament CD, 1964)

- Symphony 8: Kubelik/Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra (Altus CD, 1965)

- Symphony 9: Skrowaczewski/Minnesota Orchestra (Reference Recordings CD, 1996)

Missed this last fall. Thanks for posting!

-Bruce

[brewski]

I'm seeing a lot of highly positive reviews on this recording with Markus Poschner and the Bruckner Orchester Linz. If anyone has heard it, would be eager for comments.

Gramophone review here.



-Bruce

[LKB]

I'm seeing a lot of highly positive reviews on this recording with Markus Poschner and the Bruckner Orchester Linz. If anyone has heard it, would be eager for comments.

Gramophone review here.



-Bruce

Thanks for that link, now I've something to do for the next couple of  days. 

[Cato]

Somehow this ended up as a separate topic!  I could not discover how to delete it, so it is locked.

This popped up recently: Bruckner as Musical Therapy!

"...Apart from his profound love for and knowledge of Bruckner's music, Dr. Laczika has strong ideas about the relationship between music and medicine. In his own practice in Vienna he often uses music in therapy, basing his work on the idea that the natural rhythms of classical music — as opposed to those of computerised music — match, on a fundamental level, the rhythms of the human body. Bruckner's almost obsessive preference for strict numerical order corresponds closely with this idea...."

See:

[Cato]

Earlier I mentioned that I was revisiting Bruckner and Mahler, a book from 1955, by Hans Redlich.

I thought this passage about the String Quintet might interest people:

After writing that it would be a "gross exaggeration" to say that the work is a "symphony in disguise," Professor Redlich provide a description of sections which prove the opposite!

(from page 94)

"...(The quintet) is an attempt to adjust Bruckner's symphonic style to the requirements of an uncongenial medium.  This is borne out by a comparison of between its four movements and the movements in his symphonies.

The happiest balance is struck in the serenely beautiful Adagio, one of Bruckner's supreme inspirations....the grandeur of this mainly subdued movement becomes apparent at its fff climax, which transgresses the limitations of sonority imposed on chamber music and cries out for translation into majestic sound. 

A passage such as this clearly indicates that Bruckner could not keep for long within the boundaries of this restricted medium.  That he was chafing under this restriction is shown even more clearly by the Scherzo.
This ferocious and and dissonant piece, one of Bruckner's least grateful middle movements, shows an indisputable element of strain...

...All in all, here is plenty of evidence for Bruckner's comparative failure to provide the chosen medium with a really satisfactory work of intimate sonorities." 

So, "symphony in disguise" or "failure as a string quintet" or...? 

[calyptorhynchus]

Earlier I mentioned that I was revisiting Bruckner and Mahler, a book from 1955, by Hans Redlich.

I thought this passage about the String Quartet might interest people:

After writing that it would be a "gross exaggeration" to say that the work is a "symphony in disguise," Professor Redlich provide a description of sections which prove the opposite!

(from page 94)

"...(The quartet) is an attempt to adjust Bruckner's symphonic style to the requirements of an uncongenial medium.  This is borne out by a comparison of between its four movements and the movements in his symphonies.

The happiest balance is struck in the serenely beautiful Adagio, one of Bruckner's supreme inspirations....the grandeur of this mainly subdued movement becomes apparent at its fff climax, which transgresses the limitations of sonority imposed on chamber music and cries out for translation into majestic sound. 

A passage such as this clearly indicates that Bruckner could not keep for long within the boundaries of this restricted medium.  That he was chafing under this restriction is shown even more clearly by the Scherzo.
This ferocious and and dissonant piece, one of Bruckner's least grateful middle movements, shows an indisputable element of strain...

...All in all, here is plenty of evidence for Bruckner's comparative failure to provide the chosen medium with a really satisfactory work of intimate sonorities."   

So, "symphony in disguise" or "failure as a string quartet" or...?   

Is he talking about the String Quintet?

[Cato]

Is he talking about the String Quintet?

Ach yes!  I mistyped!!! 

I wondered that.  But the Adagio as a "mainly subdued movement"?  And the Scherzo as "one of Bruckner's least graceful grateful middle movements"?  Surely not.

Unfortunately yes! 

I must admit: I am not sure what was meant by "least grateful movements."  I assume Professor Redlich (the book is in English, no translator is mentioned) meant that he found the movement "(least) pleasant," as "pleasant" is an older meaning of "grateful."



And if you are wondering about the "frustrated" symphony for orchestra idea, here is Gerd Schaller's solution:

[Cato]

Ah, I assumed "grateful" had to be a typo - my bad.
 

By no means!  After I had typed "quartet" for "quintet," your assumption was warranted! 

444

If the argument is that the Quintet is best seen as a symphonie manqué then I can see the attractions of that, but I happen to think that it's mistaken.  None of the orchestrations I've heard seem to me to add anything.

 

Yes: I like a string orchestra version, but the one above...?

I will listen to it again tomorrow!

[calyptorhynchus]

I think Bruckner, despite the fact that he lived with the sound of the orchestra in his head presumably, managed with the Quintet to write a brilliant piece of chamber music. There isn't anywhere in the work that most obnoxious musical sound: a string quartet or quintet scrubbing away furiously trying to be a full orchestra; whereas in the chamber works of other composers...

[Jo498]

I think Bruckner, despite the fact that he lived with the sound of the orchestra in his head presumably, managed with the Quintet to write a brilliant piece of chamber music. There isn't anywhere in the work that most obnoxious musical sound: a string quartet or quintet scrubbing away furiously trying to be a full orchestra; whereas in the chamber works of other composers...

I agree with this but I think that what you describe is fortunately quite rare among great composers. I can think mainly of two string quartets that commit this sin to a certain extent (although I think they are both interesting enough to forgive it), Grieg's and Franck's.

[calyptorhynchus]

I agree with this but I think that what you describe is fortunately quite rare among great composers. I can think mainly of two string quartets that commit this sin to a certain extent (although I think they are both interesting enough to forgive it), Grieg's and Franck's.

Funnily enough those were two on my list, I have a couple of other suspects...

[Cato]

Oh my!  It has been decades since I have listened to this marvelous choral work!

The piece evokes an echoing mountainous landscape after sunset:

Evening Magic (Abendzauber) by Heinrich von der Mattig Music by Anton Bruckner

Der See träumt zwischen Felsen,
Es flüstert sanft der Hain.
Den Bergeshang beleuchtet
Des Mondes Silberschein.

Und aus dem Waldesdunkel
Hallt Nachtigallensang,
Und von dem See weh'n Lieder
Mit zauberhaftem Klang.

Ich saß am Seegestade,
Vertieft in süßen Traum;
Da träumte ich zu schweben
Empor zum Himmelsraum.

Wer könnte je vergessen
Den wonnevollen Ort!
Noch tief im Herzen klingen
Die Zaubertöne fort.

The lake dreams between rocks,
The forest whispers gently.
The mountain slope is lit
By the silvery light of the moon.

From the darkness of the forest,
Sounds the song of the nightingale,
And from the lake, songs float
With enchanting sound.

I sat at the lakeshore,
Lost in sweet dream;
I dreamed to hover
Aloft to Heaven's realm.

Who could ever forget
This delightful place!
Deep in my heart
The enchanting tones still sound.

[Cato]

Oh my!  It has been decades since I have listened to this marvelous choral work!

The piece evokes an echoing mountainous landscape after sunset:

Evening Magic (Abendzauber) by Heinrich von der Mattig Music by Anton Bruckner

Der See träumt zwischen Felsen,
Es flüstert sanft der Hain.
Den Bergeshang beleuchtet
Des Mondes Silberschein.

Und aus dem Waldesdunkel
Hallt Nachtigallensang,
Und von dem See weh'n Lieder
Mit zauberhaftem Klang.

Ich saß am Seegestade,
Vertieft in süßen Traum;
Da träumte ich zu schweben
Empor zum Himmelsraum.

Wer könnte je vergessen
Den wonnevollen Ort!
Noch tief im Herzen klingen
Die Zaubertöne fort.

The lake dreams between rocks,
The forest whispers gently.
The mountain slope is lit
By the silvery light of the moon.

From the darkness of the forest,
Sounds the song of the nightingale,
And from the lake, songs float
With enchanting sound.

I sat at the lakeshore,
Lost in sweet dream;
I dreamed to hover
Aloft to Heaven's realm.

Who could ever forget
This delightful place!
Deep in my heart
The enchanting tones still sound.

For those who want more choral works by Bruckner, here are 5 short ones:

[calyptorhynchus]

Hey, quick query, I've heard about the conductor (or conductors) who halve the tempo of the music in the finale of the Fifth when the chorale re-enters. I haven't got a recording where this happens and I haven't found one on YouTube (though I haven't searched exhaustively. Anyone care to name names?

[Cato]

Hey, quick query, I've heard about the conductor (or conductors) who halve the tempo of the music in the finale of the Fifth when the chorale re-enters. I haven't got a recording where this happens and I haven't found one on YouTube (though I haven't searched exhaustively. Anyone care to name names?

Eugen Jochum on his DGG recording is your man: I recall one musicologist (his name escapes me) complaining greatly about that halving: he insisted that, if anything, a faster tempo is warranted!

You can find it here:

[calyptorhynchus]

Eugen Jochum on his DGG recording is your man: I recall one musicologist (his name escapes me) complaining greatly about that halving: he insisted that, if anything, a faster tempo is warranted!

You can find it here:

Thanks