Bruckner's Abbey

Started by Lilas Pastia, April 06, 2007, 07:15:30 AM

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JBS

#3840
Quote from: Cato on December 19, 2022, 04:33:21 PMIs this the same recording?  Amazon seems to claim that they are, just different album covers.  The Berliners for #4 and then (perhaps) the same recording of #8 with the LPO.



I'm under the impression that the LPO private label releases such as this are in concert performances done around the time of studio performances recorded by EMI.

ETA
Timings differ but only by small amounts that could represent the audio engineers picking different start/stop points on the tape. But the LPO label version is definitely a live recording.
Overall difference is less than half a minute.


ETA 2
If they are the same performance, wouldn't the copyright show EMI licensing from LPO/BBC or vice versa?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Roasted Swan

Quote from: JBS on December 19, 2022, 05:22:09 PMI'm under the impression that the LPO private label releases such as this are in concert performances done around the time of studio performances recorded by EMI.

ETA
Timings differ but only by small amounts that could represent the audio engineers picking different start/stop points on the tape. But the LPO label version is definitely a live recording.
Overall difference is less than half a minute.


ETA 2
If they are the same performance, wouldn't the copyright show EMI licensing from LPO/BBC or vice versa?

You are quite right to the bolded text above.  This is a different performance from the EMI studio version but from around the same time.  Tennstedt was one of those conductors who "came alive" with an audience - and more to the point the orchestra went with him.....

Linz

On abruckner.com The EMI recording was a different performance from the London BBC performance

Cato

Bruckner and Mahler by H. F. Redlich was part of a series of biographies-cum-musical analyses called The Master Musicians, edited by Eric Blom and published in England by J.M. Dent.

Bruckner and Mahler, published in 1955, I read nearly 60 years ago via the Dayton Public Library.  So it was not even 10 years old back then.

Last week I came across a copy in Van Wert, Ohio in an antique shop, complete with a sticker saying "DENT BOOKS - NET  11/6."  Another sticker had "FOYLES BOOKS, Charing Cross Road, London WC 2".

How on earth it landed in Van Wert would be an interesting story!

Anyway, I thought those details might interest our members on Britannia!

When I first read the book, the Freudian analysis of Bruckner's eccentric behavior did not register, as I was too naive (not too young) at the time about such matters.

e.g. in contrasting Bruckner's religious attachment to the Catholic Church versus his "innumerable affairs of the heart," Redlich offers us this:

((My emphasis below)

"
Quote...his is a case of sexual inferiority complex, in need of powerful compensatory satisfactions.  Indeed, the peculiarities of Bruckner's psychology and the entanglements of his emotional life can all be traced back to that cause..."




Really?  As I used to tell my History students, beware of reductionism!  Certainly other factors can be invoked, e.g. the too early death of his father, the atmosphere of sophisticated urbanites versus country bumpkins, etc.

Anyway, the book is nevertheless valuable, despite its use of Freudianism, for which we cannot blame Herr Redlich, as Freud's theories dominated the curious field of Psychology/Psychiatry at the time.

I will report later on the book's musical exegesis.

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

From group who restores classic recordings:

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Cato

A few more comments from the 1955 book Bruckner and Mahler by H. F. Redlich.   (See my earlier comments above.)

The author is a fan of the Symphony #0:

Quote

"Surely the best proof for the true value of this neglected Symphony #0 must lie in the fact that its first theme...supplied the thematic underlay for the glorious trumpet theme of Symphony III..."


He also asserts that Bruckner quoted parts of the #0 in the Sixth Symphony (which work he finds somewhat unsatisfactory) and in the E minor Mass.

Like others, the author sees the Symphony #9 as a bridge not just to Mahler, and specifically Mahler's late symphonic style, but also to Arnold Schoenberg.

And...I mentioned this above:

Quote

"...his is a case of sexual inferiority complex, in need of powerful compensatory satisfactions.  Indeed, the peculiarities of Bruckner's psychology and the entanglements of his emotional life can all be traced back to that cause.."


He continues along that Freudian line with several more such comments.

On the other hand, he credits Bruckner with the resurrection of the grand symphonic style, which Wagner had declared dead, buried, and extinct.  The symphonies of Brahms with their "serenade-like" character and "restricted romantic" style hearkening back to Mendelssohn and Schumann were easy for audiences to accept.

Bruckner's symphonies, therefore, appeared "like anachronistic monstrosities," yet students and others heard something new and exciting.

I recall reading that Richard Strauss referred to Brahms as "an old pundit."  Too harsh, and Brahms still has his audience today.  However, personally I do find his "restricted romantic type" of symphony less fulfilling than Bruckner's.
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

ultralinear

While emptying a room last week that I've used as a store for the past 20 years, in amongst all the boxes of books I discovered not only Derek Watson's useful Master Musicians on Bruckner, and Hans-Hubert Schönzeler's even more readable volume entitled simply Bruckner - plus not one but two copies of Robert Simpson's irreplaceable The Essence of Bruckner (for years my go-to guide to all things Brucknerian) - but also - and I really do not remember buying it, let alone ever trying to read it - this 1947 study by one of Schoenberg's pupils, which looks a little forbidding but the premise is intriguing so I think I might give it a go. :-\  :)

calyptorhynchus

Quote from: ultralinear on January 18, 2023, 04:43:03 AMWhile emptying a room last week that I've used as a store for the past 20 years, in amongst all the boxes of books I discovered ... not one but two copies of Robert Simpson's irreplaceable The Essence of Bruckner (for years my go-to guide to all things Brucknerian)
Although I am a great fan of Robert Simpson it is important to remember that the edition of his Bruckner book that is widespread in libraries &c was written in the early 1960s before the issue of Bruckner's revisions was widely aired. Simpson rewrote this book for the 1993 edition (published by Gollancz in the UK), but this was not as widely circulated or read as the earlier edition and is difficult to come by. However it is the edition that best ventilates the edition issue and I recommend it, rather than the earlier version (oh the irony, for Bruckner listen to the earliest version (generally), with the Simpson book read the revised version!).

ultralinear

#3848
Quote from: calyptorhynchus on January 18, 2023, 10:28:15 AMAlthough I am a great fan of Robert Simpson it is important to remember that the edition of his Bruckner book that is widespread in libraries &c was written in the early 1960s before the issue of Bruckner's revisions was widely aired. Simpson rewrote this book for the 1993 edition (published by Gollancz in the UK), but this was not as widely circulated or read as the earlier edition and is difficult to come by. However it is the edition that best ventilates the edition issue and I recommend it, rather than the earlier version (oh the irony, for Bruckner listen to the earliest version (generally), with the Simpson book read the revised version!).

Yes it's the (paperback) revised edition I have (x2), and though it's many years since I last dipped into it, I do recall him saying in it that he'd changed his views significantly on a number of issues - on the 4th Symphony, for example, after hearing Celibidache's conducting of it.

Cato

#3849
Quote from: ultralinear on January 18, 2023, 04:43:03 AM- and I really do not remember buying it, let alone ever trying to read it - this 1947 study by one of Schoenberg's pupils, which looks a little forbidding but the premise is intriguing so I think I might give it a go. :-\  :)


It is an intriguing book!  Dika Newlin was a child prodigy, brought to Schoenberg c. age 10, and she almost instantly annoyed him with her perfect pitch and other abilities!  ;)

However, she is also an example of the child prodigy whose promise was not quite matched (depending on your point of view) by the results of her later life.

As a professor of music, she certainly had some valuable accomplishments.  As a creative artist, things did not work out for the best, and her eccentricities in later life seemed to prevent success at that point...unless becoming a 60-something punk rocker is considered an accomplishment, to which (again) some might say "Yes, it is!"  8)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0233572/

"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)

Mahlerbruck

My first ever Recording/CD i have heard of music of Anton Bruckner was Symphony no. 5 conducted by Eugene Ormandy and Philadelphia Orchestra.

Now i have heard more Symphony no.5 with other conductors and Orchestra's it is not my favourite or best performance. But i still like it!

What is your opinion about this performance of Eugene Ormandy.

A symphony must be like the world. It must contain everything. (Gustav Mahler)

Roasted Swan

Quote from: Mahlerbruck on January 23, 2023, 10:37:18 AMMy first ever Recording/CD i have heard of music of Anton Bruckner was Symphony no. 5 conducted by Eugene Ormandy and Philadelphia Orchestra.

Now i have heard more Symphony no.5 with other conductors and Orchestra's it is not my favourite or best performance. But i still like it!

What is your opinion about this performance of Eugene Ormandy.



I'm a big fan of Ormandy/Philadelphia recordings but NOT of this particular disc.  Well played of course but somehow rather superficial - one of my least favourite Ormandy discs of all - sorry!