Bruckner's Abbey

[JBS]

While comparing Barenboim sets--there is a third one.  Anyone have an opinion on it?


I must laugh at the back cover blurb, which says this is a legendary cycle, was begun to be recorded in 2010, and is now (that would be 2014) being released on CD for the first time--all within the same sentence.

The Chicago cycle appears to be OOP as a set, although not as individual CDs.

[Roasted Swan]

Completely agree 200%.  My favorite No. 4 ever is Barenboim/CSO.  Later Barenboim not as much.  Hard to describe it aside from the amazing sheer kinetic energy this recording exudes. 

Exactly so.  My own personal taste is not for the overly pious turgid wade through Bruckner.  Not that I like the "its Schubert with more horns" approach of some.  But what I do like is the exhilarating energy and excitement that the Barenboim 1st cycle generates.  Certainly with the dozens of cycles around it derserves at least consideration although I guess many of the door-keepers to the "Temple of Anton" might bar its entrance to such sacred ground......... 

[Roasted Swan]

While comparing Barenboim sets--there is a third one.  Anyone have an opinion on it?


I must laugh at the back cover blurb, which says this is a legendary cycle, was begun to be recorded in 2010, and is now (that would be 2014) being released on CD for the first time--all within the same sentence.

The Chicago cycle appears to be OOP as a set, although not as individual CDs.

I ask myself why but I do actually own all three Barenboim cycles.  Of course they are all well-played.  There is quite a performing difference between Chicago and Berlin.  But far less of a difference from Berlin PO to Berlin Staats so you do wonder why anyone - including Barenboim - thought it was necessary to do all over again.  In fairness (although I don't agree with him!) I think Barenboim felt his Chicago cycle lacked a depth of insight and understanding that warranted the Berlin PO remake.  Perhaps therefore, my preference for Chicago simply reflects my own lack of depth and understanding (in most things I suspect....!)

[relm1]

I ask myself why but I do actually own all three Barenboim cycles.  Of course they are all well-played.  There is quite a performing difference between Chicago and Berlin.  But far less of a difference from Berlin PO to Berlin Staats so you do wonder why anyone - including Barenboim - thought it was necessary to do all over again.  In fairness (although I don't agree with him!) I think Barenboim felt his Chicago cycle lacked a depth of insight and understanding that warranted the Berlin PO remake.  Perhaps therefore, my preference for Chicago simply reflects my own lack of depth and understanding (in most things I suspect....!)

I think it's just a more youthful interpretation and that's not a bad thing, just a different evolution of one's experience similar to how I prefer Bernstein's 1960's recordings over the 1980's.  Both are excellent but the later shows a maturity of interpretation and sometimes the more youthful approach is preferable.

[lordlance]

I heard this Sixth recently:



I don't suspect anyone was thinking this was going to be one of the all time great Bruckner Sixths and it wasn't - not actively terrible either though; just good. Lacked heft so for those who like their Bruckner a bit lighter perhaps they can give it a go. The idea of wanting lighter Bruckner seems like an oxymoron to me though. 

[calyptorhynchus]

This came out recently



I think it's the best performance so far of the Symphonic Prelude. As presented here this stands as a fine truncated Bruckner first movement (no development, hardly any coda). Great sketch!

[vandermolen]

This came out recently



I think it's the best performance so far of the Symphonic Prelude. As presented here this stands as a fine truncated Bruckner first movement (no development, hardly any coda). Great sketch!

How does the performance of the Symphony compare with earlier ones? I like that work very much.

[calyptorhynchus]

How does the performance of the Symphony compare with earlier ones? I like that work very much.

Sorry, I don't know, I only bought the Prelude. However, the playing of the Prelude is very good, so I expect it would be a good disc overall.

I have the Paavo Järvi version of the Hans Rott Symphony, which I like a lot.

[vandermolen]

Sorry, I don't know, I only bought the Prelude. However, the playing of the Prelude is very good, so I expect it would be a good disc overall.

I have the Paavo Järvi version of the Hans Rott Symphony, which I like a lot.

Thanks anyway

[Cato]

Sorry, I don't know, I only bought the Prelude. However, the playing of the Prelude is very good, so I expect it would be a good disc overall.

I have the Paavo Järvi version of the Hans Rott Symphony, which I like a lot.

YES!  A most excellent performance of the Rott Symphony.


Concerning Daniel Barenboim and Bruckner:

...Q.  Do you remember your earliest encounter with Bruckner's music?

Daniel Barenboim: Yes, I remember it very well because it was in Australia, of all places. I was on tour there and I was 15 years old. I played with [conductor] Rafael Kubelik. whom I greatly admired. And when we finished rehearsing he says, "What are you doing now?" I said, "Nothing special." He said, "Why don't you stay? I'm rehearsing the Bruckner Nine."

Q. What was about the sound of it that that drew you in?

D. Barenboim: Well, I was 15 years old, and I was not well versed in analyzing my thoughts, let alone emotions. But I remember being fascinated by the way the orchestra sounded, especially the scherzo. And then of course the unfinished third movement. I felt very attracted by the harmonies in the piece.

Q: So what keeps you interested in and Bruckner's music today? You've recorded three cycles of his symphonies, and now you're about to conduct them all live at Carnegie Hall.

D. Barenboim: People think: How do musicians manage always to play the same pieces again and again for years and years and years? You know, some of the pieces I've been playing on the piano, including one of the Mozart concertos that I'm playing in this cycle in New York, I played in 1950.

Somebody who feels he has to strain himself in order not to be bored by doing the same piece again might as well look for another profession, because it means he doesn't understand the first thing about it. Nothing in music is twice the same way. In the same way that nothing in life is twice the same way

The most fascinating thing about being a musician is that every time you play or you conduct a piece, you learn something more. That means if I conduct the Bruckner Ninth today, when I finish the concert, I know something more about the piece than I knew before the concert. And when I come to conduct it again tomorrow, I come with a little more knowledge.

But the sound, the performance, is finished. I have to create all that from zero. And to create something from zero with more knowledge about it is one of the most wonderful experiences a human being can have.

See:

https://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2017/01/19/509469628/why-bruckner-matters-a-listeners-guide-with-daniel-barenboim

[Cato]

YES!  A most excellent performance of the Rott Symphony.


Concerning Daniel Barenboim and Bruckner:



See:

https://www.npr.org/sections/deceptivecadence/2017/01/19/509469628/why-bruckner-matters-a-listeners-guide-with-daniel-barenboim

I should mention that the link above has the complete radio interview: the article is only a section of the interview.

[Cato]

From the listening now topic:

AnotherBruckner symphony No. 3 in D Minor this time with Eugen Jochum and the Staatskapelle Dresden

You seem to be listening in order: I am interested in knowing whether you think your perception/appreciation of the works might be somehow changed or affected.

[Florestan]

Exactly so.  My own personal taste is not for the overly pious turgid wade through Bruckner.  Not that I like the "its Schubert with more horns" approach of some.  But what I do like is the exhilarating energy and excitement that the Barenboim 1st cycle generates.  Certainly with the dozens of cycles around it derserves at least consideration although I guess many of the door-keepers to the "Temple of Anton" might bar its entrance to such sacred ground......... 

Do I correctly infer that Barenboim / CSO cycle is not an overly pious and turgid wade, it's nothing like Jochum or Celibidache and actually it's held in contempt by the door-keepers to the "Temple of Saint Anton"? If yes, this sounds like something that might finally crack the Bruckner nut for me. I might try it.

[Jo498]

There are quite a few of non-reverent and/or lean and fastish Bruckner recordings but Bruckner will remain Bruckner.

[DavidW]

Do I correctly infer that Barenboim / CSO cycle is not an overly pious and turgid wade, it's nothing like Jochum or Celibidache and actually it's held in contempt by the door-keepers to the "Temple of Saint Anton"? If yes, this sounds like something that might finally crack the Bruckner nut for me. I might try it.

I don't think that it is held in contempt, it is just unknown.  It is a victim of being on the same label as Karajan and Jochum I, didn't receive enough marketing and went oop quickly.  Sometimes it doesn't pay to be on a major label. 

[Florestan]

I don't think that it is held in contempt, it is just unknown.  It is a victim of being on the same label as Karajan and Jochum I, didn't receive enough marketing and went oop quickly.  Sometimes it doesn't pay to be on a major label. 

Have you heard it? If yes, would you agree that it is "irreverential"?

I try to figure out if it's worth my time.

[DavidW]

Have you heard it? If yes, would you agree that it is "irreverential"?

I try to figure out if it's worth my time.

Not the whole set!  I've heard more of the later two sets (those are middle of the road).  But I don't think that word fits for Barenboim in anything he conducts.  The only time I felt that way was when listening to Gielen's Bruckner 8.

[vers la flamme]

Have you heard it? If yes, would you agree that it is "irreverential"?

I try to figure out if it's worth my time.

I can't speak on the Chicago cycle, but "irreverential" is absolutely not a word I would use to describe Barenboim's BPO cycle, which is definitely more in the "spiritual" Bruckner tradition. I have a hard time believing that his approach would have changed THAT much between the two cycles so as to go from "irreverential" to monumental.

[LKB]

Just wondering, has anyone heard any of von Karajan's live recordings of the Fifth? I know of at least one each from Berlin and Vienna, but l don't know if there are any others out there.

[Florestan]

I can't speak on the Chicago cycle, but "irreverential" is absolutely not a word I would use to describe Barenboim's BPO cycle, which is definitely more in the "spiritual" Bruckner tradition. I have a hard time believing that his approach would have changed THAT much between the two cycles so as to go from "irreverential" to monumental.

This is what piqued my interest:

My own personal taste is not for the overly pious turgid wade through Bruckner

from which I inferred that Barenboim / CSO is nothing like the above description, hence my use of "irreverential".