Bruckner's Abbey

[Daverz]

HMV Japan has XRCDs of Kempe's 4th and 5th.  I'm primarily interested in the 5th, which I have on Odyssey Lps.  Only ¥3800!  With shipping it would only be ¥5000 for one symphony.  Yet I'm tempted.

[MishaK]

Don't know the 5th, but I have the 4th in the Great Conductors EMI/IMG series. Beautiful performance. Expansive but alive. Worth having.

[Lilas Pastia]

8 th symphony roundup: Barbirolli and the Hallé Orchestra.

This is a concert taping from the Royal festival Hall, London (an ungrateful venue). Hailing from 1970, it's among Barbirolli's last recordings. A few things have to be mentioned: it's supposed to be stereo, but I hear everything as from a mono perspective (on speakers - if it's stereo, maybe it can be discerned on headphones). The sound as captured is loud and clear. And I do mean LOUD. There are no pp or ppp to be heard anywhere. It's all right there before the listener as bright as daylight. Very good for the end of I and the timpani taps before the coda of IV. In concert, one 'feels'  those as well as hearing them. But on disc, they more often than not go for naught - too many p's from the conductor, too much distance form the microphones, or simply lost in translation (from microphone to tape to disc). These are pivotal moments in the symphony, and I always feel cheated when they disappear from the aural perspective. That is emphatically not the case here (a good point). As is the low brass' sonorous rasps and buzzes.  The Hallé brass play mostly very well (there are clams), and the timpani are thrilling. Strings are a bit light, with little weight to their massed sound.

The interpretation is certainly of the first order. Barbirolli pulls and goads the rythms in the introduction to I - great conducting here, it neither interferes with the music's flow nor does it impose an alien aesthetic. There's a case for treating this movement like the first movement of Schubert's 9th. Brass snarl and timpani thunder. The climax is very well prepared and delivered. As mentioned the end is suitably ominous, but admittedly too loud.

The scherzo is one of the best. I like a snappy tang to the rythms. No fudged lines here, no legatoing of the important viola part à la Karajan. The Adagio begins with trembling violins (few conductors do that to this extent, except maybe Jochum) and the movement proceeds in broad paragraphs. The climax is not shattering, the orchestra seemingly unable to give the textures the saturated, glowing fullness of the best. The Finale is very good. It's hard to find faults in Barbirolli's conducting. There's a sibelian accenting of the horns and timpani in the orchestral balances. Either through microphone trickery or the conductor's balances, the horns swamp the trumpets in the coda. It's usually the other way around. The last arpeggiated chord is theatrically delivered to great effect. It doesn't sound cheap - reminds me of Thor's hammer (Sibelius 5).

One of the more interesting 8ths - substantially better than I had remembered. In the end, the mf+ dynamics tire the ear and undermine the work's gigantic aural vistas. The sound is slightly glaring - too brightly lit, too close, with insufficient bass. It slights the work, and it slights an excellent interpretation.

[Renfield]

Ladies and gentlemen, I don't generally read the Gramophone anymore these days (opting for the IRR), but I did happen to get the most recent issue, and noticed a few words on the following set:



Now, this is the first I hear of either the man or his Bruckner legacy - but it intrigues me. It seems to be the earliest Bruckner intégrale, and worth hearing, if you trust Gramophone. Any further information you might have on Andreae or his Bruckner, though, would be most welcome!

[Opus106]

Any further information you might have on Andreae or his Bruckner, though, would be most welcome!

Sample available here.

[Opus106]

Looking back in this thread, it appears that more downloads of Andreae's Bruckner were available from John Berky's website as recently as a three months ago.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29.msg325540/topicseen.html#msg325540

[Renfield]

Looking back in this thread, it appears that more downloads of Andreae's Bruckner were available from John Berky's website as recently as a three months ago.

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,29.msg325540/topicseen.html#msg325540

Thank you.

I should have read through the thread more thoroughly, what with how piecemeal my reading of the forum has been the past few months.

And Andreae's work does appear worth hearing - I'm impressed with how natural his Bruckner sounds, in a time where (if I'm not mistaken) it was anything but! Edit: 'Natural', as in 'not like some sort of curio, or as a historical burden of debt to the composer'.

[Lilas Pastia]

My good friend ChooChoo has purchased the Andreae box and is in thrall over the whole thing. I have heard only 1 (both versions) and 2, courtesy of the Berky site. They are all excellent. ChooChoo singles out the 1st and 8th as particularly remarkable interpretations. I suppose the sound is improved (hopefully much improved) over the downloads I heard.

[Lilas Pastia]

I was sharing this with ChooChoo last weekend. I think I can recycle it here:

I've continued my Bruckner 8 listening with the Böhm Cologne and Tennstedt Boston performances. I find the latter two among the very best ever. For some reason I had never equated the Cologne among Böhm's most revelatory readings of a Bruckner symphony. But I now find it better than the Zürich and Munich versions. It is powerful and dramatic, yet very simply (i.e. naturally)  conducted. Playing and conducting are really excellent.

The Tennstedt is one of the most exciting performances I've heard. Is sizzles and crackles with electricity from start to finish. I find the Boston brass marvelous in their audacity of projection and thrilling bronzen tones. No holds barred playing. There is a feeling of chances being taken and overall the approach is triumphantly vindicated. Not an everyday reading, but one that leaves me bravo-ing with the audience. For the life of me I can't recall the source of this download. I wonder if there is a clean cd out there? This has some static in places. Annoying, but bearable.

[DarkAngel]

I've continued my Bruckner 8 listening with the Böhm Cologne and Tennstedt Boston performances. I find the latter two among the very best ever. For some reason I had never equated the Cologne among Böhm's most revelatory readings of a Bruckner symphony. But I now find it better than the Zürich and Munich versions. It is powerful and dramatic, yet very simply (i.e. naturally)  conducted. Playing and conducting are really excellent.

I think the Bohm/WDRSO Koln/GCOC above is my favorite 8th of all time by any conductor, the Bohm/Audite 8th is very close and a great version. Just recently got the Bohm/Audite 7 & 8 an essential addition to my Bruckner collection. I also was not as impressed with the later Bohm/Palexia with Zurich Tonnehall, but worth having as is the wonderful Bohm/DG Galleria 8th with VPO which I rank 3rd behind the Audite 8th

I also just recently posted here that the Bohm Cologne is my very favorite of all 8ths I have heard, it has it all
dramatic power
deep intensity
majestic sweep
solemn reverence, spirituality

[Lilas Pastia]

HI, DA. I had read your post a few days ago. Good to see some interest among brucknerites for Böhm's interpretations.

ChooChoo also likes the Cologne version, but he prefers the Zürich to the Vienna version. You obviously prefer Cologne. My own favourite - has been for some 30 years - is the studio Vienna version.

So, for the record, my personal ranking would be: Vienna, Cologne, Munich and Zürich.

Right now I don't have access to my main collection. So it might be a while (2 weeks?) before I continue my recension. For those interested, I'll be listening to Böhm Vienna, Furtwängler (Berlin and Vienna), Haitink KCO (1969),  Mrawinsky, Rozhdestvensky, Kegel, possibly Boulez and a couple of others before embarking on the 2-disc sets. My goal is to listen to the most significant versions by timing order. Trying to factor in what's gained - and inevitably lost - by adopting ever slower tempi. Obviously that means ending with a Celi version (MPO, live form Munich). All told, probably half of a possible 50 or so versions I currently own.

So far it's been a most interesting journey. From memory and from present listening experience, here are the top achievers (whatever that means - butI know this coining does have a certain currency here :

- Böhm Vienna (studio DG, 1979)
- Jochum Bamberg (06.1982)
- Furtwängler Berlin 15.03.49
- Tennstedt Boston (live, 1974)
- Böhm Cologne (1974)

Really worthy runner-ups would include Païta's London Something Orchestra, Haitink KCO 1969, Kubelik BRSO 1963, van Beinum KCO and the exciting but uneven Barbirolli Hallé. All told, an exciting journey.

[DarkAngel]

My 2nd favorite all time Bruckner 8th (after Bohm Cologne) is from same great GCOC series Schuricht VPO, previously available coupled with great 9th........




Not to be confused with the earlier Schuricht 8th done for Hanssler label, the later VPO version above is the superior version

[Drasko]

The Tennstedt is one of the most exciting performances I've heard. Is sizzles and crackles with electricity from start to finish. I find the Boston brass marvelous in their audacity of projection and thrilling bronzen tones. No holds barred playing. There is a feeling of chances being taken and overall the approach is triumphantly vindicated. Not an everyday reading, but one that leaves me bravo-ing with the audience. For the life of me I can't recall the source of this download. I wonder if there is a clean cd out there? This has some static in places. Annoying, but bearable.

That would be me. I sent the links for that broadcast recording to you and Nigel, but that was more than two years ago. Where I found it can't remember, either rmcr or operashare, but doesn't really matter, the links are long dead by now.
Only unofficial CD release was from Rediscover (according to Berky), whether their source was free of static I don't know. Don't know even if Rediscover exists anymore.

[Lilas Pastia]

Thanks, Milos ! Indeed it was some time ago. Nigel though it was me who sent him the link... . Did you hear it yourself?

Whatever the status of that particular link, the performance ought to resurface some day. It's tremendous.

[MishaK]

To add to DarkAngel's post: please do include the Schuricht/VPO version in your survey. You're missing one of the great Brucknerian dramatic rides if you leave that one out.

[Drasko]

Thanks, Milos ! Indeed it was some time ago. Nigel though it was me who sent him the link... . Did you hear it yourself?

Yes, of course I heard it. It is one of my favorite 8ths. As can be seen here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11096.msg275792.html#msg275792

[Opus106]

Whatever the status of that particular link, the performance ought to resurface some day. It's tremendous.

It's out there, actually, the 1974 recording.

[Lilas Pastia]

To add to DarkAngel's post: please do include the Schuricht/VPO version in your survey. You're missing one of the great Brucknerian dramatic rides if you leave that one out.

It just so happens that I don't have it. I listened to it in its lp incarnation over 30 years ago and never got to have it in my collection in whatever source or format. I almost came to when it was briefly available as a Rouge et Noir twofer on EMI (with the 9th - same comment). I have a 1955 NDR performance, but it's probably very different if one is to judge by timings (it's 8 minutes longer, most notably in the Adagio).

Yes, of course I heard it. It is one of my favorite 8ths. As can be seen here:

http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,11096.msg275792.html#msg275792

Thanks, this thread had flown under my radar. I'll have a thorough look at it this week.

It's out there, actually, the 1974 recording.

Out there where ?

[Opus106]

Out there where ?

In your PM inbox, that's where.

[Keemun]

Out there where ?

In your PM inbox, that's where.

This is probably the same version that Navneeth has, as I believe we obtained it from the same source.   Nevertheless, I'll post the links to my copy if you (or anyone else) wants to check it out. 

Bruckner: Symphony No. 8
Klaus Tennstedt
Boston Symphony Orchestra
December 20, 1974
From off-the-air open reel
FLAC files

http://www.mediafire.com/?zhglzyulgye
http://www.mediafire.com/?lgjq3en0ktw
http://www.mediafire.com/?ztgjimml2wn