Bruckner's Abbey

[Cato]

I came across this article today:

"...In the second half of the concert, the orchestra performed Bruckner's "Symphony No. 6," under the baton of conductor Lu Jia, who is also music director of the orchestra.

This year marks the 125th anniversary of Anton Bruckner's death. Lu, a Shanghai native and Bruckner fan, said the sixth symphony is the Austrian composer's "most complex and best-quality" work.

"We experience the mystery of mathematics in Bach's works; we see the charm of a child prodigy in Mozart's works; we hear the greatness of heroes in Beethoven's composition," he said, "but in Bruckner's works, we open up ourselves and get close to the sky, the earth and nature, and confront ourselves...."

Interesting view! 

See:

https://www.shine.cn/feature/art-culture/2104167528/

[Cato]

I came across this article today:

"...In the second half of the concert, the orchestra performed Bruckner's "Symphony No. 6," under the baton of conductor Lu Jia, who is also music director of the orchestra.

This year marks the 125th anniversary of Anton Bruckner's death. Lu, a Shanghai native and Bruckner fan, said the sixth symphony is the Austrian composer's "most complex and best-quality" work.

"We experience the mystery of mathematics in Bach's works; we see the charm of a child prodigy in Mozart's works; we hear the greatness of heroes in Beethoven's composition," he said, "but in Bruckner's works, we open up ourselves and get close to the sky, the earth and nature, and confront ourselves...."

Interesting view! 

See:

https://www.shine.cn/feature/art-culture/2104167528/

A few thoughts on the conductor's comment: an often-made comment one hears or reads concerns the "religious" or "pious" sound one detects in Bruckner's music, undoubtedly because he was a religious man, a church organist, who composed Masses and motets for the Catholic Church.

It is interesting to read that "the sky" and "Nature" itself opens up for Mr. Jia.  Looking back to my first experiences with the Bruckner symphonies, when I was barely a teenager in the early/mid-1960's, I do recall the music evoking such images at times.  Of course, those can have their religious aspects also.  What I recall the most, however, from my initiations, is the thrill of the emotional evocations found in the themes, the sudden outbursts, and in the great, slowly burgeoning climaxes. 

Whether self-confrontation was involved...perhaps, I can no longer say for sure.  What I can say is that throughout the decades I have always undergone different experiences with every hearing, and never felt that I was tired of listening to any of the works.  Rather, I expected to hear something I had never sensed before, and that expectation has always been met.

Yes, the Sixth Symphony is a great favorite.   "Most complex" ?  I can understand that opinion, given - at first hearing, or even more than one hearing  - the seemingly disparate nature of the movements.  "Best quality"?  I am unsure what he means by that, except if he considers it to be the most complex symphony, "best quality" might follow from that opinion. 

[Cato]

New CD of Bruckner's Third Symphony (Nowak Edition)






with conductor Christian Thielemann: on Amazon some reviews are 5-star, here is a fairly negative one with some interesting phrases.

Die Wiener Philharmoniker sind brave Musikanten, Thielemann ist ein braver Dirigent, und alle zusammen lassen Bruckner einen braven Mann sein, der brave Musik komponiert hat. Naja. So klingt's zumindest für mich. Spannung kommt in dieser Aufnahme ... von Bruckners 3. Sinfonie bestenfalls in homöopathischen Dosen auf, Thielemann reiht sich ein in die Legion der durchschnittlichen Bruckner-Dirigenten der 70er und 80er (zu denen auch Thielemanns unüberhörbares Klang-Vorbild Karajan zählt), .... Viel indifferente Wucht, wenig differenzierende Klanggewalt. Eine Sinfonie, die wie ein akustischer Godzilla aus einem Notenmeer steigt, und alles niedertrampelt, was filigran sein könnte...

"The Vienna Philharmonic has nice musicians.  Thielemann is a nice conductor, and together they all allow Bruckner to be a nice man, who has composed nice music.  Oh well!  At least that's how it sounds to me.  Excitement in this recording of Bruckner's Third is best taken in homeopathic doses.  Thielemann ranks among the legion of average Bruckner conductors of the 70's and 80's (counted among them is also Thielemann's unmistakable Sound-Model Karajan) ...a very indifferent momentum, few distinctions in dynamics.  A symphony, which climbs from the deep sea of musical notes like an acoustic Godzilla and tramples everything which could be delicate..."


(My translation above)

I have not heard any of Thielemann's other Bruckner CD's: any opinions on them?  Reviews on Amazon are mixed for them also.

[calyptorhynchus]

Interesting the thought about Bruckner as a religious composer, obviously he was a deeply pious Catholic but he did write more symphonies than masses! Japanese followers of western classical music seem to like his music and perhaps they find in it something like a more Buddhist mysticism?

[Mirror Image]

New CD of Bruckner's Third Symphony (Nowak Edition)






with conductor Christian Thielemann: on Amazon some reviews are 5-star, here is a fairly negative one with some interesting phrases.


"The Vienna Philharmonic has nice musicians.  Thielemann is a nice conductor, and together they all allow Bruckner to be a nice man, who has composed nice music.  Oh well!  At least that's how it sounds to me.  Excitement in this recording of Bruckner's Third is best taken in homeopathic doses.  Thielemann ranks among the legion of average Bruckner conductors of the 70's and 80's (counted among them is also Thielemann's unmistakable Sound-Model Karajan) ...a very indifferent momentum, few distinctions in dynamics.  A symphony, which climbs from the deep sea of musical notes like an acoustic Godzilla and tramples everything which could be delicate..."


(My translation above)

I have not heard any of Thielemann's other Bruckner CD's: any opinions on them?  Reviews on Amazon are mixed for them also.

I've been wondering about these newer Thielemann recordings as well. It seems some of the negative reviews I've read mention his Staatskapelle Dresden performances being much better, which I'd have no argument with since I believe those performances to be top-drawer. It seems in Wiener, he's reeled in some of the excitement and adds in more vanilla, which could never be a good thing.

[Mirror Image]

Any opinions on the Gergiev cycle?

[aukhawk]

I'm no Brucknerian (I generally prefer the Venzago recordings which tells you all you need to know) but I do really like the Gergiev 2nd.  It's a fine recording of an absolutely gorgeous acoustic setting, and probably my favourite single Bruckner record out of those I have.  (2nd place - the Honeck 9th.)  I've read that the cycle as a whole is uneven though, with the 4th for example attracting adverse comments, whether for performance or recording I don't know - I think the 4th was recorded some time before tne 2nd so maybe the partership was not fully formed.

[Mirror Image]

I'm no Brucknerian (I generally prefer the Venzago recordings which tells you all you need to know) but I do really like the Gergiev 2nd.  It's a fine recording of an absolutely gorgeous acoustic setting, and probably my favourite single Bruckner record out of those I have.  (2nd place - the Honeck 9th.)  I've read that the cycle as a whole is uneven though, with the 4th for example attracting adverse comments, whether for performance or recording I don't know - I think the 4th was recorded some time before tne 2nd so maybe the partership was not fully formed.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I've read reviews on this cycle as well and they're all over the map from excellent to lousy. Gergiev is an extremely erratic conductor. He has more misses than hits in my experience (his Mahler, for example, was a travesty). I just can't imagine him being too convincing of a Brucknerian.

[André]

For those interested, a specialist's curio: the long voyage of Bruckner's 3rd symphony's manuscript is described in photos on John Berky's web site. The manuscript itself is photographed - all of it - starting from slide 201.

From Bruckner's death onward it was handed to or used for performance or study by all kinds of people, from Mahler to his widow Alma, to Schalk, Löwe, Rättig, etc. Paintings of some of these people by Schoenberg and Kokoschka are included. The 1920s and 30s Vienna is also pictured (the Musikverein, the entry of the Nazis in Vienna, the Palais Mollard-Clary of the Austrian National Library where the manuscript is now kept, etc). Fascinating stuff.


https://www.abruckner.com/down/articles/articlesEnglish/houle-gilles-the-long-journey-of-the-manuscript-of/TheLongJourneyOfTheManuscriptOfTheThirdSymphony_Images.pdf

The written storybook of all this is in a second link of some 379 pages. That's way too much for me and, I guess, for most people, even the most ardent brucknerian. I'd rather look at the pictures !

https://www.abruckner.com/down/articles/articlesEnglish/houle-gilles-the-long-journey-of-the-manuscript-of/TheLongJourneyOfTheManuscriptOfTheThirdSymphony_Text.pdf

[Cato]

A live performance from Cologne: Mass #2 in E  minor

https://www.youtube.com/v/YqlcXpPdaBc

[Cato]

I just happened to notice this on the Anton Bruckner website (www.abruckner.com): record companies maltreating their customers, this time via the Paavo Järvi Bruckner cycle:

After years of having the recordings available, Sony / RCA Red Seal finally gets around to releasing the Paavo Jarvi Bruckner cycle as a complete set. But this release really annoys me!!! There are several reasons:

1) Sony / RCA have been sitting on these recordings for years. Look at the recording dates:


Symphony 0 - March, 2017 Never released as a single CD.

(Numbers refer to the symphonies)

[1] February 6, 2013
[2] March 30 - April 1, 2011
[3] March 19-21, 2014
[4] September 3-5, 2009
[5] April 2-3 & May 28-30, 2009
[6] May 20-22, 2010
[7] November 22-24, 2006
[8] October, 2011 Never released as a single CD.
[9] February 27-29, 2008

They have been trickling out this series of recordings for over ten years and the final recording (Die Nullte) has been available for four years.

2) Sony / RCA is following the disgusting practice of issuing the set without offering two of the recordings as single releases. So, the patrons who have supported this project by purchasing the recordings as they have been released over the last decade are now the ones who are punished by not being offered the last two recordings. Now they are supposed to purchase the complete set???

3) I have seen situations when the complete set has been offered at a discounted price thus alleviating some of the pain for those who have purchased the individual CDs, but Sony / RCA is putting out their "limited edition" for the outrageous price of $200.00!

SHAME ON THEM!!

See:  https://www.abruckner.com/editorsnote/news/bmg-to-release-paavo-jarvi-bruckner-cyclebut/

Has this been typical for other cycles?

[vers la flamme]

^Who on earth is paying $200 for the Paavo Järvi Bruckner cycle...?

[Cato]

Courtesy of a Bruckner fan:

https://www.youtube.com/v/G8zuELOE5eo

[Mirror Image]

^Who on earth is paying $200 for the Paavo Järvi Bruckner cycle...?

Someone with deep pockets apparently.

[Cato]

I have been oppressed for most of the summer by preparing our "new" (60 years old) retirement house for our arrival some time this month (I hope!) and preparing our present house for its sale!


Anyway, I took a few spare moments this morning to read a few things, and this popped up on FaceBook: The Second Symphony under Georg Solti and the Chicago Symphony.


https://www.youtube.com/v/vj_ANtp4iMs

[André]

I have been oppressed for most of the summer by preparing our "new" (60 years old) retirement house for our arrival some time this month (I hope!) and preparing our present house for its sale!


Anyway, I took a few spare moments this morning to read a few things, and this popped up on FaceBook: The Second Symphony under Georg Solti and the Chicago Symphony.


https://www.youtube.com/v/vj_ANtp4iMs

I heard it only once many moons ago but seem to recall it as a high point in Solti's uneven CSO traversal.

Are you moving far, Leo ? Good luck for everything ! 

[Cato]

I heard it only once many moons ago but seem to recall it as a high point in Solti's uneven CSO traversal.

Are you moving far, Leo ? Good luck for everything ! 

Thank you, Andre'!   I will need to find an hour to listen to it.

We are moving c. 2 hours to the northwest here in Ohio, near my wife's hometown.  Things were supposed to be easier when you retired....    0:)

[VonStupp]

I heard it only once many moons ago but seem to recall it as a high point in Solti's uneven CSO traversal.

Yes, I would say Solti and Chicago are best in Bruckner's earliest symphonies. I don't know if anyone clambers for Symphonies 0-2, though.

[André]

Yes, I would say Solti and Chicago are best in Bruckner's earliest symphonies. I don't know if anyone clambers for Symphonies 0-2, though.

Well, count me in ! They are extremely refreshing in their boldness and rythmic drive.

[Cato]

Well, count me in ! They are extremely refreshing in their boldness and rythmic drive.

Amen!  I will never forget a live performance in the Toledo Rosary Cathedral of Die Nullte by the Toledo Symphony under Stefan Sanderling some years ago.  They obviously believed that the symphony was no minor-league exercise, but a major work by a great composer!