Bruckner's Abbey

[Haffner]

Oh man, you're in for some serious JAH-min'. Just make sure you wear an extra pair of socks when you do. 

Of course.

_{^{dying laughing}}

[Daverz]

This morning on my drive to work at about 8:30am they were playing Bruckner's Symphony No. 9 on the radio (I came in on the Adagio).  That was a strange drive.
I thought some of the tempo fluctuations were somewhat odd in this recording, tempo seemed to be pushed around too much, but the playing , particularly strings, was excellent.  Turned out to be Janowski with the Suisse Romande.

[Bonehelm]

This morning on my drive to work at about 8:30am they were playing Bruckner's Symphony No. 9 on the radio (I came in on the Adagio).  That was a strange drive.
I thought some of the tempo fluctuations were somewhat odd in this recording, tempo seemed to be pushed around too much, but the playing , particularly strings, was excellent.  Turned out to be Janowski with the Suisse Romande.

Could the "strange drive" be a result of your car's momentum of your and the groove of the music not synching together? 

[eyeresist]

^^
I was recently wondering if we should start a "Music to start your day" thread, after listening to the Shostakovich cello concertos first thing in the morning and getting into a very strange mood.

[Lilas Pastia]

This Suisse Romande - Janowski 9th seems to elicit mixed responses. My good friend ChooChoo finds it rather plodding and uninteresting (no tempos pushed around in his opinion). OTOH, the reviewer in ARG's latest issue recommends it without reservation. He actually seems to think very highly of the whole thing (interpretation, playing, sound).

[M forever]

Hmmm...that sounds interesting. I didn't know of that recording. Janowski is a conductor I generally value, so I would like to hear that. I have a recording of Bruckner 4 with him and the Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France which is rather good, so maybe I will even download that from amazon. Apart from single tracks, I have never done that (mostly because of the 256kbps), but it might be worth a try.

[bhodges]

Just found out that the Cleveland Orchestra's performance of Bruckner's Fifth Symphony, with Franz Welser-Möst, will be broadcast on PBS--here in New York it'll be on June 11 at 9:00 p.m.  I believe it is the same performance that made it to DVD, here, recorded in the St. Florian Abbey in Linz, Austria in 2006 (cover below).  Although I haven't seen the DVD yet, I did hear these same forces in the same piece at Carnegie around the same time, and it was a pretty amazing performance.   

Here is the link to PBS's website, where you can find your local station and see when they're broadcasting it.

--Bruce

[M forever]

I purchased that Janowski recording of the 9th via download and listened to it in the meantime. It is quite interesting and has many good elements, but at first and second ear, I also find it fairly odd and random in some places and respects. But there seems to be more behind what Janowski is doing than meets the ear at first (or at least, my ear), so I will revisit this recording soon and then see if I can make more sense of it.

[Lilas Pastia]

Well, it came and went. It now exists in the memory, hoping that a recording will materialize (a forest of microphones hung from the ceiling): last June 6 Myung-Whun Chung and the Concertgebouw Orchestra played the 6th symphony  (a Messiaen work took care of the obligatory first half of the program). Pending a detailed review in The Bruckner Journal (ChooChoo was there too and will report in due course), I can attest that this was an extremely fine performance, distinguished by an original and authoritative conception of the work and put through in the best possible conditions. Suffice to say that the orchestra was simply astounding in its collective acumen and finesse. A huge dynamic level was achieved effortlessly, its impact felt in part by the body (vibrations strongly felt whenever the full orchestra was playing fff), but always falling euphoniously on the ear. Spectacular solo winds and brass contributions, an almost too assertive timpani player, and a collective sound that always blended perfectly.

Chung's conception of the work was very 'big' in I, classically conceived in II (slow in tempo but not lachrymose in expression - magnificent viola and cello playing here), too fast for my taste in III ('nicht schnell' it wasn't), and brilliantly symphonic in IV. I'm not sure which version/edition he chose, but the coda of IV didn't bring out the first movement's main theme in the usual manner. The effect was that of  a turbocharged collage rather than the grand peroration one usually hears. Very exciting, but slightly disconcerting. I sincerely hope a broadcast will appear soon, with an easily available download 

[bhodges]

Wow, does that sound great.  PS, I have a friend from NYC who was at the same concert (I think).  He went mostly for the Messiaen, and didn't really comment on the Bruckner!

--Bruce

[Lilas Pastia]

Heeehee ! I didn't dwell on it because I went for the Bruckner , but here's what I can tell:

My first surprise was to find that the orchestra calls for a very large string section (10 db, 12 celli, etc, against 8 and 10 in the Bruckner). And yet, apart from one movement, the orchestra never produces a full range of decibels. That's ok, considering that the  dynamic range is mostly pp to f, no more. There is only one movement where the full orchestra is displayed (including a rather prominent bass drum, and an eerie effect with brushed suspended cymbals and violin glissandi). The last section is for strings alone, never rising over  a discreet dynamic level (befitting the title, Prière du Christ montant vers son Père ("Prayer of Christ ascending towards his Father"). Although the orchestral version is the original and the organ a transcription, I prefer the latter. In preparation for that concert I had listened to both versions. Messiaen's simplistic melodies, mostly unsurprising harmonies and absence of rythmic progression fail to arouse more than a respectful interest. There's no doubt that hearing it live gives it an enormous presence vs the much narrower dynamic range of a cd played at home. I don't expect this to be surpassed as a musical experience in my lifetime. And yet, the 'orchestral' Messiaen continues to elude me, either in concert or on disc  .

[M forever]

Whether you have 16-14-12-10-8 (total 60) or 18-16-14-12-10 (total 70) doesn't make any noticeable difference in sound pressure level and it doesn't really make a difference in texture either (provided the musicians always play well together which is obviously the case if they are the same). Maybe Messiaen called explicitly for these numbers (were there sections in which the strings were divided into many smaller sections, by stands).

[rubio]

This recently released Bruckner 8 by Klemperer/Cologne RSO seems mighty interesting. It doesn't have the cuts like his later EMI recording.

[Renfield]

This recently released Bruckner 8 by Klemperer/Cologne RSO seems mighty interesting. It doesn't have the cuts like his later EMI recording.

I think I posted about it in the listening thread last month or so, when I'd bought it... It's interesting indeed, a very fine Bruckner 8th; though decidedly Klempererian. Highly recommended, as far as I'm concerned!

[71 dB]

Been listening to symphony 3 again (Ver. 1889/Sanderling).

Last night movement. 1
This morning movement 2

Few days later the rest.

This section deleted by moderator as it is totally there for the sake of causing trouble

GB

[Maciek]

Whether you have 16-14-12-10-8 (total 60) or 18-16-14-12-10 (total 70) doesn't make any noticeable difference in sound pressure level and it doesn't really make a difference in texture either (provided the musicians always play well together which is obviously the case if they are the same). Maybe Messiaen called explicitly for these numbers (were there sections in which the strings were divided into many smaller sections, by stands).

A note for those who missed it: the noice cancellation discussion is continued here.

[M forever]

This section deleted by moderator as it is totally there for the sake of causing trouble

GB

As was my reply in which I asked 71dB to please shut up in maybe not very polite language. I can see why Mr B deleted that. So let me ask him again, this time really nicely:

Can't you please shut up and stop spamming this forum with stuff you have said hundreds (literally) of times before and which really nobody wants to hear (read)? PLEASE?

I also said that it would be nice, for Elgar's and his music's sake, if he gave people a chance to listen to Elgar's music without being reminded of him (71dB) and all the nonsense he talks about his music, especially in comparison with other music. Because that caases a nauseating effect which makes it impossible to continue to enjoy Elgar's music. Is that OK if I ask nicely to give Elgar's music a chance with all those listeners who have been put off it by 71dB?

[Gurn Blanston]

As was my reply in which I asked 71dB to please shut up in maybe not very polite language. I can see why Mr B deleted that. So let me ask him again, this time really nicely:

Can't you please shut up and stop spamming this forum with stuff you have said hundreds (literally) of times before and which really nobody wants to hear (read)? PLEASE?

I also said that it would be nice, for Elgar's and his music's sake, if he gave people a chance to listen to Elgar's music without being reminded of him (71dB) and all the nonsense he talks about his music, especially in comparison with other music. Because that caases a nauseating effect which makes it impossible to continue to enjoy Elgar's music. Is that OK if I ask nicely to give Elgar's music a chance with all those listeners who have been put off it by 71dB?

Yes, I would like to introduce myself to more of Elgar beyond the 2 great concertos, but I likely won't do it for a long time to come now.

Anyway, I do rather like Bruckner, so let's get back to him. How about that 7th symphony...


----------------
Listening to:
London Mozart Players / Bamert  Miceal O'Rourke - Field Nocturne in F for Piano #16 (of 18)

[Lilas Pastia]

HERE's a very detailed review of that Chung-Concertgebouw concert. I hasten to add that I'm not the one who fell asleep during the Adagio  . I must say that although I agree with much of ChooChoo's findings, the interpretation as a whole found more favour to my ears than to his. Where I was - and still am - more critical is precisely where he had less to carp about: a slowish adagio and a too fast scherzo. As for the rest, I only have praise for what was an extremely characterful interpretation. Not my favourite, but played so forcefully and magnificently that I could not help thinking how privileged I was to be there. I actually count myself lucky that such technical imperfections as the ensemble problems in I passed by unnoticed to my blissfully untrained ears

[mahler10th]

^^
I was recently wondering if we should start a "Music to start your day" thread, after listening to the Shostakovich cello concertos first thing in the morning and getting into a very strange mood.

The beginning of the fourth movement of Bruckners 8th would get you feeling ready for anything first thing in the morning, and plenty of other Brucknerian movements.  But for something a little stranger, try waking up to Lutslawski 2 or 3?