Bruckner's Abbey

[jlaurson]

Anyone heard this?  He's also done the 9th, maybe others, and I think he is embarking on a complete cycle.  I enjoyed his Beethoven, but that style would not really be suitable for Bruckner, IMO - so it makes me wonder what he would bring to these works.

I don't know if Scarpia knows or counter-assumes, but in any case he is on the right track: These Bruckner recordings are VERY different, stylistically, than the Beethoven recordings. For one, it's a VERY different orchestra.

Still, his 9th is awesome; his 7th wasn't immediately something I stopped in my tracks for, but I need to re-listen more vigorously.

Re: Franco -- I didn't know Neeme was doing Bruckner (in SACD), too. What label for? What orchestra with?
I'm not yet enamored by Janowski's Bruckner.

Speaking of SACD Bruckner, here's some news:

MINNESOTA ORCHESTRA'S RECORDING OF BRUCKNER'S FOURTH SYMPHONY
led by Music Director Osmo Vänskä released by BIS

Bruckner's Fourth Symphony is the 454th work the Minnesota Orchestra has recorded since 1924

The Swedish label BIS Records has released a recording of Bruckner's Fourth Symphony, known as the Romantic, performed by Music Director Osmo Vänskä and the Minnesota Orchestra.  The disc, the newest chapter of the highly-acclaimed collaboration between BIS, Mr. Vänskä and the Orchestra, is now available through the Orchestra's website at minnesotaorchestra.org, and will also be available in stores and as a download on major internet music sites.

Mr. Vänskä and the Orchestra recorded the Fourth Symphony at Minneapolis' Orchestra Hall in sessions during January

The BIS team, led by producer Rob Suff, recorded the album as a Super Audio CD (SACD), using surround sound recording technology to reproduce the sound of the concert hall as faithfully as possible.  BIS Hybrid SACDs are playable on all standard CD players.

Mr. Vänskä and the Orchestra have earned high praise for their prior recording projects together, including a five-disc Beethoven symphony cycle with BIS that was described as "maybe the definitive [cycle] of our time" (The New York Times); the recordings earned honors including a Grammy nomination for the Ninth Symphony recording and a Classic FM Gramophone Award nomination for the disc of the Second and Seventh.  The Orchestra is now recording all five Beethoven piano concertos with soloist Yevgeny Sudbin, also for BIS.

The Minnesota Orchestra (founded as the Minneapolis Symphony Orchestra) issued its first recording in 1924, and has since recorded more than 450 works.

[Renfield]

I believe they're also performing it live in this year's Proms, in London. Along with the Beethoven 9th (the next day).

[Scarpia]

Re: Franco -- I didn't know Neeme was doing Bruckner (in SACD), too. What label for? What orchestra with?

No indication that a cycle is in the works, but Chandos has released a recording of  Bruckner 5 with Neeme Jarvi and the resident orchestra of The Hague



I saw it on Chandos' new release page along with a blurb saying that Neeme Jarvi is the leading Bruckner interpreter in the world and that the 5th is by far Bruckner's most popular symphony.  I'm not sure which claim is more ludicrous.

[jlaurson]

I saw it on Chandos' new release page along with a blurb saying that Neeme Jarvi is the leading Bruckner interpreter in the world and that the 5th is by far Bruckner's most popular symphony. I'm not sure which claim is more ludicrous.

[kishnevi]

I'm usually on my way to Ohio this time of year, and in fact had planned to see the Cleveland Orchestra's final concert of the season. But circumstances (mostly health-related) are keeping me in Germay this spring and summer. Reading this Plain Dealer article about the upcoming concert, I'm now even more disappointed. It's rare we get the opportunity to hear Bruckner's original Eighth.

The reason I'm posting this: any thoughts on the original vs revised versions? Pace Welser-Möst I think the original, while interesting, is clearly inferior. I think that Coriolan-like ending to the first movement, quiet, tragic, is one of the most profound things he ever wrote; it's both musically and emotionally more logical and satisfying than the forced,  "tacked on " happy ending fanfares of the original. When listening to the original, I miss the harps in the Trio. Kind of like the triple woodwind and more prominent horns though.

Sarge

I've seen (but not heard) a Naxos recording of Tintner conducting the original version of the 8th coupled with the "Nullte" symphony (it's a two CD set, with the last movement of the 8th and the Nullte on the second CD).

My (only) recordings of the First through Third are part of this Naxos/Tintner series.  I'm not enamored of them,  but without comparison versions, I can't say if the fault is Tintner's or Bruckner's.

[Brahmsian]

I've seen (but not heard) a Naxos recording of Tintner conducting the original version of the 8th coupled with the "Nullte" symphony (it's a two CD set, with the last movement of the 8th and the Nullte on the second CD).

My (only) recordings of the First through Third are part of this Naxos/Tintner series.  I'm not enamored of them,  but without comparison versions, I can't say if the fault is Tintner's or Bruckner's.

Tintner's fault.  Tintner's Bruckner is boring as sin.  Try Jochum with Staatskapelle Dresden, Karajan or Haitink.  Try any conductor besides Tintner, basically. 

[Keemun]

Tintner's fault.  Tintner's Bruckner is boring as sin.  Try Jochum with Staatskapelle Dresden, Karajan or Haitink.  Try any conductor besides Tintner, basically. 

Amen!  It wouldn't have taken me nearly as long as it did to enjoy Bruckner's symphonies if I hadn't started off with Tintner's recordings.  I hear doctors are using them as drug-free alternatives to induce comas. 

[Sergeant Rock]

Poor Tintner, being ganged up on. He was a very great Brucknerian but his style isn't to everyone's taste...obviously 

Sarge

[Scarpia]

Poor Tintner, being ganged up on. He was a very great Brucknerian but his style isn't to everyone's taste...obviously 

And not around to defend himself, since he tossed himself out a window.   

[Lethevich]

I feel that if Tintner can produce such a solid 9th with an un-ideal orchestra in a highly competetive field (almost all using the same version of the score), then he's pretty good. I've found that his recordings are deeply considered, and like historical recordings you must somewhat listen beyond the recordings to see what he is doing - it's really non interventionist, but he shapes everything with such care. Even when he is making a decisions I don't care for (such as slow tempi) I prefer his Bruckner over many of the slickly produced autopilot run-throughs from the past 10-20 years (and beyond).

[Scarpia]

I prefer his Bruckner over many of the slickly produced autopilot run-throughs from the past 10-20 years (and beyond).

What would you consider an example of a slickly produced autopilot run-through?

[Lethevich]

What would you consider an example of a slickly produced autopilot run-through?

A most recent example would be Nézet-Séguin, recordings which some people rave about but in reality are just "nice" sounding, plushifying the music with very little that feels deeply-considered. Others that come to mind are López-Cobos (relentlessly second-tier in almost anything he does) and Davis (including a magnificently irksome 9th on LSO Live).

Edit: although on consideration, the Davis could possible not be considered a "run-through" - as to get everything so wrong requires some kind of close attention.

[Scarpia]

A most recent example would be Nézet-Séguin, recordings which some people rave about but in reality are just "nice" sounding, plushifying the music with very little that feels deeply-considered. Others that come to mind are López-Cobos (relentlessly second-tier in almost anything he does) and Davis (including a magnificently irksome 9th on LSO Live).

Edit: although on consideration, the Davis could possible not be considered a "run-through" - as to get everything so wrong requires some kind of close attention.

I tend to agree about Lopez-Cobos recordings being sort of nondescript, although I value his Telarc recordings for the extremely natural audio-engineering.  Some of the few recordings that convey what an orchestra really sounds like, I'd say.

[DavidW]

A most recent example would be Nézet-Séguin, recordings which some people rave about but in reality are just "nice" sounding, plushifying the music with very little that feels deeply-considered. Others that come to mind are López-Cobos (relentlessly second-tier in almost anything he does) and Davis (including a magnificently irksome 9th on LSO Live).

I don't know who those people are because those are not highly discussed recordings.  It sounded like you were attacking recordings from Scrowaczewski, Barenboim etc you know ones that are actually talked about?  It doesn't seem that note worthy to say that Tintner is at least as good as the very mediocre López-Cobos!   That doesn't really mean much.

[Lethevich]

Hehe, re. the López-Cobos thing, I mean that rather than being a case of absolute "these are both 3/5 star recordings and so are equal", it's more that the assets of one (good recorded sound) are less worthwhile than what Tintner offers, which are somewhat non-mainstream, non-showy (in the sense of the impressively recorded and played core recommendations such as Karajan and Wand). Tintner's assets may be less viscerally pleasing, but has a lot to offer if those are not high priorities of a listener, insights which fly far above the heads of certain conductors including the ones I listed.

Masur I would offer as a choice over Barenboim and Scrowaczewski for a rather pointless cycle that is well-distributed and by a well-known conductor. It sounds very good and would not turn off a newbie, but offers nothing that is not found elsewhere. Scrowaczewski does play things straight, but it's too good to dismiss so easily, with a really clear-headed view of how each symphony will play out. Like some others I have a rather "eww" reaction towards the Barenboim for reasons I cannot pin down, but it's a creative cycle even if only Sarge would consider it a first choice.

I'm probably going to find myself having pissed on a few too many boots by now

[Scarpia]

Masur I would offer as a choice over Barenboim and Scrowaczewski for a rather pointless cycle that is well-distributed and by a well-known conductor. It sounds very good and would not turn off a newbie, but offers nothing that is not found elsewhere. Scrowaczewski does play things straight, but it's too good to dismiss so easily, with a really clear-headed view of how each symphony will play out. Like some others I have a rather "eww" reaction towards the Barenboim for reasons I cannot pin down, but it's a creative cycle even if only Sarge would consider it a first choice.

Actually, Bruckner is a composer for which almost no recordings are unwelcome to me.   I'd say his works are essentially unperformable, so almost every recording brings something to the fore that I have missed in other recordings.   I am must starting to make my way through the Barenboim cycle, as well as the Chailly, and in no case do I feel that "yes, finally this is how it is supposed to sound" but neither to I fail to find them worth hearing.  That said, I have never heard the Tintner.

[Opus106]

That said, I have never heard the Tintner.

The MP3 of the 9th is still available for free, from Amazon, if you're interested.

[Franco]

Poor Tintner, being ganged up on. He was a very great Brucknerian but his style isn't to everyone's taste...obviously 

Sarge

There are a couple of nay-sayers, but the reviewers at Amazon give Tintner high marks:

Magnificent, Unique Bruckner from a Remarkable Conductor
Probably the Best Set of the Bruckner Symphonies
The best all digital Bruckner by far
Indispensable
Uneven Bruckner
Not Perfect but indispensible
spectacularly persuasive performances
Great interpretations, superbly recorded
Provincial & Un-Inspired
GLORIOUSLY AFFORDABLE BRUCKNER CYCLE

[Scarpia]

Gloriously affordable sums it up.   

[DarkAngel]

Tintner's fault. Tintner's Bruckner is boring as sin.  Try Jochum with Staatskapelle Dresden, Karajan or Haitink. Try any conductor besides Tintner, basically. 

Tintner/Naxos 00-3 symphonies are very good in modern sound, but 4-9 do not hold up against much stronger versions

Now that Karajan/DG boxset is widely available at low prices best complete sets for me are definitely Karajan and  Jochum