Bruckner's Abbey

[André]

The 6th as per AMW's rating system (in alphabetical order and of course subject to change at the next hearing of those listed):

Objectively good : nothing to fault and everything to praise interpretatively. Very characterful playing and conducting.

- Bongartz, GewandhausOrchester Leipzig
- Keilberth BP
- Leitner Stuttgart R.S.O.
- Stein, WP
- Swoboda (in admittedly old sound) with the Wiener Symphoniker.

Subjectively good: they all have outstanding features, but don't make it to the Wow ! stage. I would still recommend them as first choices, as most of those in the first category are more heavily spiced than the following:

- Haitink, Amsterdam Concertgebouw
- Kegel Leipzig Radio Symphony
- Klemperer NPO (Testament and EMI)
- Leitner Basel S.O. (among the slowest yet most lyrical of the lot).
- Lopez-Cobos Cincinnati S.O.
- Wand Cologne (Kölner Rundfunk)

Average-ish: very good but not outstanding. Inducing boredom at worst.

- Barenboim Chicago Symphony
- Haitink, Staatskapelle Dresden.
- Karajan BP
- Nézet-Séguin Montreal Metropolitan Orchestra
- Jochum (BRSO)
- Steinberg, Boston Symphony.

Meh: not necessarily unattractive, but unable to lift themselves above the rank and file, let alone the most characterful ones.

- Barenboim Berlin Phil
- Bernstein NYPO (live)
- Celibidache, Munich Philharmonic
- Gielen, SWR Baden-Badeun und Freiburg Orch.
- Jochum Dresden Staatskapelle
- Skrowaczewski, Saarbrücken
- Tintner, NZ Symphony Orch.
- Wand, NDR Hamburg Orch.

[amw]

Also curious to see people's B8 lists, since I haven't heard any really 'objectively good' ones (The 'subjective' ones are those that are personal favourites of mine, but hard to recommend to others due to weird/unusualness) and haven't even listened to all that many when it comes down to it.

Subjectively Good
Païta
Rozhdestvensky (as above)
Roth & Baden-Baden bootleg someone sent me

Average-ish
Kempe
Boulez

Meh
Celibidache

WTF
Klemperer

Currently Böhm and the Bavarians are accompanying my luncheon in suitably doom-laden fashion. I'm really enjoying them so far; def not a 'meh'.

(No point in me making a list for 9 as I consider every one I've heard 'objectively good' so far    )

[TheGSMoeller]

Bruckner: Symphony No. 6
Bernstein/NYP

Interpretively it's very interesting, with some truly gripping choices in tempi and with Bernstein's stressful treatment of ritardandos. This is a live performance, so it's filled with that 'in the moment' excitement, including the occasional foot podium-pounding by Bernstein. Unfortunately there is a good amount of crowd noise and multiple, and very audible, Horn mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/v/L4K-GsihakU

[The new erato]

Lovro von Matacik on Supraphon (  sorry for the missing diacritics) - has anybody heard it?

[Jo498]

Which number? I have a 7th with von Matacic on Denon or Supraphon which is good but I am not sure if it deserves the raves one sometimes reads about it. Not a Bruckner expert myself, although I really like the 7th.

[The new erato]

No 6. An early LP purchase of mine and I've always felt a sentimental attachment to it despite not having listened to it for some years.

[MishaK]

Objectively good

This is possibly the funniest thing anyone has written on GMG ever. The mere fact that my list would look almost exactly inverse of yours makes it all the more funny.

[Christo]

This is possibly the funniest thing anyone has written on GMG ever. The mere fact that my list would look almost exactly inverse of yours makes it all the more funny.

I find this categorizing very convenient: objectively good = everything I like, subjectively good = everything you like and I don't care if you do, average-ish = everything I don't care about and neither do you, meh = everything I dislike and/or somebody whom I dislike happens to like.

[MishaK]

I find this categorizing very convenient: objectively good = everything I like, subjectively good = everything you like and I don't care if you do, average-ish = everything I don't care about and neither do you, meh = everything I dislike and/or somebody whom I dislike happens to like.

Well we *could* talk purely about the technical proficiency of a performance in relatively objective terms - intonation, rhythmic accuracy, ensemble coordination etc. aren't really subject to debate. But this does require a certain level of musical training. And even then, I doubt that e.g. Leitner Stuttgart R.S.O. or Swoboda with the Wiener Symphoniker would rank anywhere near the top performances of B6 from a technical, objective standpoint.  But even so, I think we all agree a technically perfect does not a moving and convincing, let alone "great" performance make.

[amw]

I find this categorizing very convenient: objectively good = everything I like, subjectively good = everything you like and I don't care if you do, average-ish = everything I don't care about and neither do you, meh = everything I dislike and/or somebody whom I dislike happens to like.

I use them as such: objectively good = will recommend to someone who's never heard B6 before; subjectively good = I like it, but it's weird/unusual/not actually very good so you probably won't.

Like, Leitner's obviously not up to the 'technical' level of e.g. Sawallisch, but interpretively sits in the sweet spot between obsession, grandeur and energy that we sometimes call 'brucknerian', so it's easy for it to recommend as part of a B6 starter kit.

[Sergeant Rock]

Also curious to see people's B8 lists

Favorites

Maazel/Berlin
Maazel/SOBR
Szell/Cleveland
Boulez/Vienna
Suitner/Staatskapelle Berlin

Favorites but hard to recommend

Paita/with his hired thugs
Celibidache/Munich
Klemperer/Philharmonia
Gielen/Baden-Baden

Enjoyable but wouldn't be allowed on the ship to the desert island

Guilini/Vienna
Dohnányi/Cleveland
Celibidache/Stuttgart
Wand/Berlin
Wand/Köln
Karajan/Berlin

Meh

Barenboim/Berlin
Böhm/Zurich
Kubelik/SOBR
Chailly/Concertgebouw
Jochum/Dresden
Schuricht/Vienna (sorry, Misha)

Original Version (interesting to hear occasionally, but his critics were correct and the revision is superior)

Tintner > Inbal

[amw]

Original Version (interesting to hear occasionally, but his critics were correct and the revision is superior)

Tintner > Inbal

Schaller and his hired thugs sound pretty good in this from samples, actually. I don't know the Davies.

I'd rate Böhm/Audite as possibly my second favourite so far... will listen to more eventually. Right now, first exposure to 7, with Norrington

[Sergeant Rock]

Schaller and his hired thugs sound pretty good in this from samples, actually. I don't know the Davies.

I don't know those dudes' B8s

I'd rate Böhm/Audite as possibly my second favourite so far... will listen to more eventually.

Böhm/Bruckner has always been problematic for me. I have yet to hear a Böhm/Bruckner performance that's moved me in any way. He just sounds cold-blooded. I'll try to sample the Audite, though.

Sarge

[ritter]

I don't have that many recordings of Bruckner's Eighth as to make a list, but must say that I wasn't really impressed by the Böhm / Audite set when I got it a couple of years ago. I found the scherzo problematic: the brass sound as if they were having an off night, and the filligree of figures of the trumpets sound muddled; the whole movement sounds hastily put together to me. I think the Böhm / Vienna on DG is far superior...

I should relisten to the Audite soon in light of amw's comment...

[Drasko]

Also curious to see people's B8 lists

In order of favoritedness:

Klemperer/Koln RSO
Tennstedt/BSO (broadcast)
Bohm/VPO
Schuricht/VPO
Matacic/NHK SO
Paita/PSO

Recommendable ones are Bohm (I prefer the VPO over both Audite and Zurich) and Schuricht I guess. Klemperer is nothing like his late EMI recording but orchestra is occasionally touch sloppy and the sound is mono (good mono, though), Tennstedt is not a commercial recording (I have yet to warm to his live BPO recording on Testament), Matacic's orchestra is bit lightweight and Paita is bit extreme.

[amw]

I don't have that many recordings of Bruckner's Eighth as to make a list, but must say that I wasn't really impressed by the Böhm / Audite set when I got it a couple of years ago. I found the scherzo problematic: the brass sound as if they were having an off night, and the filligree of figures of the trumpets sound muddled; the whole movement sounds hastily put together to me.

Yes that sounds about right—I generally like the 'sound' of the Bavarians so I granted them leeway, and it was one of the first results when I searched in Qobuz, and I've only heard the symphony 5-6 times before. Intepretively & in some details of the playing it was definitely impressive to an uninitiate though.

edit: Norrington's 7th is problematic (esp in terms of phrasing, articulation & dynamics) but enjoyable (esp in terms of tempo and energy). Also, this is a really cool symphony. Bruckner actually can write melodies! (sometimes)

edit 2: I liked the symphony enough to listen to another recording. This time I picked Wand/Berlin. It's pretty much a totally different piece in their hands, lol. That coda to the first movement though. ≠.≠

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Also curious to see people's B8 lists

It's a three-way tie for me:

Boulez/VPO
Dohnanyi/Cleveland
Jochum/Dresden

Chailly/Concertgebouw rounds out my list.

[MishaK]

I don't know those dudes' B8s

You should. ;-) Which Kubelik B8 was it you didn't like? Orfeo or BR? I didn't like the Orfeo but I thought the BR version is excellent. I will need to check my notes for a full list, but one that always surprised me positively was quite unexpectedly Solti/CSO, the 1990 live in Leningrad recording. Brilliant. Like a completely different conductor compared to the horrible 1969 VPO version he recorded.

[Sergeant Rock]

You should. ;-) Which Kubelik B8 was it you didn't like? Orfeo or BR? I didn't like the Orfeo but I thought the BR version is excellent. I will need to check my notes for a full list, but one that always surprised me positively was quite unexpectedly Solti/CSO, the 1990 live in Leningrad recording. Brilliant. Like a completely different conductor compared to the horrible 1969 VPO version he recorded.

The BR...but I only listened once and may have not done it justice. I'll relisten soon.

That Solti/Vienna  ....my first B8. I played it once, hated it, returned it to the record shop the next day. Bought the Szell with the refund.

Sarge

[MishaK]

That Solti/Vienna  ....my first B8. I played it once, hated it, returned it to the record shop the next day.

That was approximately my reaction as well. It's unclear from the performance who hated whom more: Solti the VPO or the other way around.