Author Topic: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)  (Read 54120 times)

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Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #80 on: December 14, 2009, 11:38:31 PM »
Thanks again!

Has anyone heard Frank-Peter Zimmermann's Szymanowski + Britten disc yet?

Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #81 on: December 25, 2009, 11:20:09 AM »
Maciej - your posts on this thread have been fantastic - enlightening and passionate in their advocacy - brilliant combination!

Have been having a major Szymanowski binge recently (violin concerto no.1 Symphony no.3, Demeter, Myths, Litany to the Virgin Mary, Stabat Mater, String Quartets,) - the sumtuous and ecstatic lyricism, the state of tension and release being almost simultaneous - is he the most erotically charged of all composers?

I was just wondering whether Hagith is good? I have heard it compared to Salome and Bluebeard which can only be a good thing! I adore Krol Roger and I'd love to hear this too.
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Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #82 on: December 25, 2009, 01:50:17 PM »
Thanks, Guido! I'm blushing... :-[

- is he the most erotically charged of all composers?

 ;D I think he is! ;D ;D

Quote
I was just wondering whether Hagith is good? I have heard it compared to Salome and Bluebeard which can only be a good thing! I adore Krol Roger and I'd love to hear this too.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... What was that?... Salome and Bluebeard? I agree - that could only be a good thing.

But personally I'm not much of a Hagith fan. One of the very few Szymanowski pieces I dislike. I guess Dax's link to a recording earlier in this thread (or somewhere else in the forum) doesn't work anymore (expired)... :(

Very happy (ecstatically happy) to see listeners far better musically educated and more astute than myself enjoying this composer.

BTW, Sean recently started another Szymanowski thread (it was supposed to be about the 1st Symphony but it sort of strayed... 0:))... (From me it's just the same thread-hijacking obsessed promotional drivel but, luckily, Sean and schweitzeralan managed to get in a word or two. :))

snyprrr

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #83 on: December 25, 2009, 09:24:15 PM »
Does anyone have scores, or knowledge as to how S gets those strange harmonies? What are these erotic "chords", or what not? I mean, I hear it too, but I don't know the theory. In a way, doesn't Messiaen have a similar palette, but used in a completely different way? Ecstasy in service, rather than unbridled? The devil has the best tunes?

Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #84 on: December 26, 2009, 12:00:44 AM »
I have a couple of the big orchestral scores, and there are many to be downloaded from IMSLP (incl. SQ 1! ;) - BUT BLOCKED :'(). Essentially, as far as I can remember from what I've read (I'm not really up to doing that sort of thing myself), there isn't really any "normal" way to analyze them, since Szymanowski's mature music has only extremely tenuous links with tonality.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 12:04:47 AM by Maciek »

Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #85 on: December 26, 2009, 05:32:35 AM »
Yes they sound ultra dissonant to me and saying its a D flat minor chord with added augmented fourth, minor sixth, major seventh, major 11th and minor 13th wouldn't really be that useful! As I said before, what I think is remarkable is the sense of tension and release being present simultaneously, the corruscating surface textures, the soaring violin lines, the luminous added note chords, the shifting web of harmony, the simultaneous gossamar delicacy and gargantuan movement all create tensions which are just so...
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Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #86 on: December 26, 2009, 05:33:19 AM »
...lubricious!
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snyprrr

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #87 on: December 26, 2009, 07:30:36 AM »
Honestly, if I correlated S's soundworld to his filthy mind (what?, was he some kind of Tom of Finland?), I start to feel a bit oo-oo-oogey. Is this the sound of "manlove"? ...all those cooing sounds?

...eeeuuuuwww...

Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #88 on: December 26, 2009, 08:30:21 AM »
Honestly, if I correlated S's soundworld to his filthy mind (what?, was he some kind of Tom of Finland?), I start to feel a bit oo-oo-oogey. Is this the sound of "manlove"? ...all those cooing sounds?

...eeeuuuuwww...

 I was aware that he was gay, but I wasn't aware that he was especially dirty - do spill the beans (so to speak obviously). Do I detect hints of homophobia in your post?
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Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #89 on: December 26, 2009, 01:53:41 PM »
You know, Sz's homosexuality isn't such a simple matter. 1. To me, the "eroticism" of his works is not exactly "sexual" (in a "carnal" sense), it's very sublimated; the lyricism, the unquenchable thirst, the desperate longing seem to be of a more universal, existential nature,  2. He did not "become" a homosexual until quite late in his life. If I remember correctly, at the beginning of WWI he was still quite a playboy, and on the lookout for a wife (his close friendships with Kochanski or Spiess, for example, were perfectly innocent). Perhaps to some extent Sz's homosexuality was a sort of philosophical (???) choice... (Something to do with a rather tenuous concept of "spiritual freedom" - I'm baffling myself here, but then he seems to have been a complicated person... It was also supposed to be the fruit of a "journey of self-discovery" - excuse the rather pedestrian phrase.) Frankly, though, I really don't care. ;D

Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #90 on: December 26, 2009, 01:54:28 PM »
BTW, Guido, love your vocabulary etudes. ;D [Would that be a legitimate genre name?]

Offline Dax

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #91 on: December 27, 2009, 07:11:57 AM »
Hagith's nowhere near my favourite Szymanowski either. But here it is.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/8tfw41

Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #92 on: December 27, 2009, 08:24:08 AM »
BTW, Guido, love your vocabulary etudes. ;D [Would that be a legitimate genre name?]

Cheers! I try to be colourful and piquant in my choice of vocabulary (there's no more appropriate way to describe music and its effects in my opinion) without becoming turgid and prolix or worst of all sesquipidalian! (irony alert here!)

Quote
To me, the "eroticism" of his works is not exactly "sexual" (in a "carnal" sense), it's very sublimated; the lyricism, the unquenchable thirst, the desperate longing seem to be of a more universal, existential nature
I agree - it's not depicting the physical act, its the tension, ecstacy and longing of it.
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Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #93 on: December 27, 2009, 09:22:09 AM »
For anyone interested, there's a Hagith vocal score on IMSLP as well!

(Dave, do you think you could re-upload the John Ogdon Szymanowski program as well? :-*)

Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #94 on: December 27, 2009, 09:30:34 AM »
Oh, and I forgot to mention one thing about the Wilkomirska blog Dax posted earlier: if you follow the link inside that blog, you can also find a download of Wilkomirska's legendary recording of Szymanowski's 1st VC, under Rowicki. [Conscientious downloaders might want to know that a different release of the Karlowicz VC recording also offered there is definitely still in print, though probably difficult to obtain outside of Poland.]

Offline Dax

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #95 on: December 27, 2009, 10:42:01 AM »

Offline Maciek

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #96 on: December 27, 2009, 12:15:52 PM »
Thanks so much! 8)

snyprrr

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #97 on: December 27, 2009, 03:37:50 PM »
You know, Sz's homosexuality isn't such a simple matter. 1. To me, the "eroticism" of his works is not exactly "sexual" (in a "carnal" sense), it's very sublimated; the lyricism, the unquenchable thirst, the desperate longing seem to be of a more universal, existential nature,  2. He did not "become" a homosexual until quite late in his life. If I remember correctly, at the beginning of WWI he was still quite a playboy, and on the lookout for a wife (his close friendships with Kochanski or Spiess, for example, were perfectly innocent). Perhaps to some extent Sz's homosexuality was a sort of philosophical (???) choice... (Something to do with a rather tenuous concept of "spiritual freedom" - I'm baffling myself here, but then he seems to have been a complicated person... It was also supposed to be the fruit of a "journey of self-discovery" - excuse the rather pedestrian phrase.) Frankly, though, I really don't care. ;D


I can see that.

Do I detect hints of homophobia in your post?

You want  :-*, or  :P?

Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #98 on: December 27, 2009, 03:41:59 PM »
Geologist.

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Offline Guido

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Re: Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)
« Reply #99 on: December 27, 2009, 03:42:36 PM »
I hate the new smilies.
Geologist.

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