Karol Szymanowski (1882-1937)

[abidoful]

I had the same problem. I thought "wow, this is great, we're in fantasyland" when the music started, but by the end my enthusiasm was dissipating. Eventually I got rid of the disc (it was the Carmina 4tet - highly regarded I think). I've given Szymanowski several shots, but I just don't think he's for me.

Try the 1st VC, it's pure "fantasy-land" from start to finish. I don't think the two SQ's are his "greatest masterpieces"; the first one- i believe- is a torso since i read (Jim Samson: the music of Szymanowski) that he planned a fourh movement. I always have this kind of off-balance when it ends; "Is this it?!???". And the second quartet is sort of lifeless.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Try the 1st VC,

I did. And I tried some other things as well (3rd Symphony, etc.). Same result. I'm just not in sync with Szymanowski's style.

[abidoful]

I did. And I tried some other things as well (3rd Symphony, etc.). Same result. I'm just not in sync with Szymanowski's style.

Maybe you should try the Rattle/Zehetmeir version, great colors! It's WILD piece, I'm telling you--got me in to modern styles.

[Octo_Russ]

I'm really getting into Szymanowski's String Quartets, i think they're some of his very best works, i actually prefer the Second String Quartet over the First, the Carmina Quartet are superb.

[abidoful]

Glad you like them, but I can't agree you there---he definately wrote better orchestral/vocal music

[Dax]

From a concert that took place on June 20th in Dresden:

An interesting interpretation. Though if you ask me, there it's far too "objective", without the mad passion this music requires.

Karol Szymanowski Violin Concerto No. 1
Christian Tetzlaff
Philharmonic Orchestra of Helsinki
Leif Segerstam

DownloadLink: http://rapidshare.com/files/43891820/Szymanowski_Karol_I_Koncert_skrzypcowy_op_35_OF_w_Helsinkach_Christian_Tetzlaff_Leif_Segerstam.mp3
File-Size: 35,40 MB

This new Tetzlaff recording is making me curious. I have heard (they're still somewhere on my computer) 2 live performances with Tetzlaff in the VC (Segerstam and Boulez), and felt that, at least in those specific cases, he was a bit off the mark (as I've commented earlier in this thread, his playing seemed too emotionally detached and cold for this sort of music). I wonder if his approach has changed in any way.

- from Maciek 3rd November 2010

Very many thanks for posting the version conducted by Segerstam. I've only just got around to listening to it, having heard for the first time today the same violinist on the CD conducted by Boulez. To be perfectly frank, I'm amazed that it is the same violinist . . .

The Boulez CD with the 1st violin concerto and the 3rd symphony seems to have earned a large number of rave reviews, mainly (I would suspect) from those who are not particularly familiar with Szymanowski's music. I can't say that I share their enthusiasm, particularly with regard to the violin concerto. On the plus side, there's a goodly amount of intricate detail from "colour" instruments such as piano and celesta which one doesn't usually get to hear with such clarity. On the other hand the general string and woodwind sound is considerably less clear, indeed the general balance is distressingly opaque and the myriad of submelodies from the orchestra seem not to have been considered, either by the conductor or the engineers. More troublesome still are the tempi: Boulez's fast tempi are probably the fastest I've heard and in at least two places they're obviously faster than the violinist is happy with. There's little or no breath between "sentences" and all rits/ralls are understated or in some cases completely ignored. Tetzlaff's intonation is pretty dodgy and the refusal to linger seems as much his fault (especially judging by the cadenza) as that of Boulez. There is a distinct lack of passion about this performance which I would imagine would be anathema to many Polish listeners and I was heartened to notice that Maciek used the phrase

without the mad passion this music requires

. I am, of course, one of those who have have lived with the admirable Wanda Wilkomirska version (the most impassioned version you're ever likely to hear) for over 40 years.

Hearing the same violinist conducted by Segerstam was a real shock. The tempi were much more sober and for most of the time were almost identical to those of Witold Rowicki, the conductor of Wilkomirska's 1961 recording. It was clear that Segerstam had modelled his interpretation on Rowicki's, right down to the outrageous horn glissando in the orchestral interlude round about 24 minutes in. (Well, it sounds outrageous in Rowicki's recording; rather less so in Segerstam's: but I've never heard it in any other performance or recording). Tetzlaff sounded a considerably happier man for all of this: the music breathes, the intonation is far surer, the colours are more varied and there's real romance in the playing even if the passion is less apparent than one would like. Segerstam's approach seemed to be "legit" 19th century Romantic (but not, unfortunately early 20th century Postromantic). Mrs Dax let fly at Boulez "But he's playing it like a modernist piece: there's no sexiness at all!".

I'm glad to report that Boulez's account of the 3rd symphony was considerably less bothersome, due in part to the solo tenor Steve Davislim who does a terrific job. In contrast to the recording of the violin concerto, this must be one of the slowest versions ever recorded. Come on, Pete, it's not Wagner! This music is supposed to disturb the hairs on the back of my neck! Again, there's a wealth of detail to revel in here, but the reservations about the general sound (especially, in places, of the chorus) are present here as well.

Definitely not the CD of the year, then, as more than one critic would have us believe.

[Mirror Image]

I can understand the criticism now about Boulez's Szymanowski recording. These performances aren't the best I've heard, but they were good. It doesn't wipe my mind of Wit or Rattle, and never will, but it was nice to hear the music conducted by Boulez. I just didn't think Boulez captured that eerie, troubled quality of Szymanowski's music, so instead what we have are efficient readings that are about clarity and structure, but, in turn, allow us to hear textures we might have, otherwise, heard before.

[abidoful]

I have that Boulez dis. I was quite disappointed with the performance of the VC. For me, the most bothersome thing was that the solo part was too overpowered by the orchestra, the sound of the solo violin did not "blossom" and I feel that they recorded it in that way for some reason. I don't have a great big discography of the work since I have one so good; the Zehetmeir/Rattle one of the both but of the ones I've heard (maybe 5-6 of them) this was, surprisingly the worst. Something just didn't work in this performance.

BUT, again surpisingly, the performance of the Third Symphony was the best I've heard (along with Dorati which has inferior recording quality). I liked it alot. Even the very beginning, the sound of thgat chord was hm.... quite something. And the solo violin part in this Boulez recording was simply stunning; I never realized that it had so beautiful solo violin part!

[Maciek]

Thanks, guys, for those very interesting comments. I can report that the Boulez CD is getting a lot of buzz over here as well.

[Mirror Image]

I have that Boulez dis. I was quite disappointed with the performance of the VC. For me, the most bothersome thing was that the solo part was too overpowered by the orchestra, the sound of the solo violin did not "blossom" and I feel that they recorded it in that way for some reason. I don't have a great big discography of the work since I have one so good; the Zehetmeir/Rattle one of the both but of the ones I've heard (maybe 5-6 of them) this was, surprisingly the worst. Something just didn't work in this performance.

BUT, again surpisingly, the performance of the Third Symphony was the best I've heard (along with Dorati which has inferior recording quality). I liked it alot. Even the very beginning, the sound of thgat chord was hm.... quite something. And the solo violin part in this Boulez recording was simply stunning; I never realized that it had so beautiful solo violin part!

For Szymanowski's VCs, I turn to Mordkovitch/Sinaisky w/ BBC Philharmonic on Chandos. This is my reference recording. All other ones are judged against this one:

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[abidoful]

For Szymanowski's VCs, I turn to Mordkovitch/Sinaisky w/ BBC Philharmonic on Chandos. This is my reference recording. All other ones are judged against this one:

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I  have a bad feeling about Chandos; too many disappointing experiences like the complete Rachmaninoff songs.

And there's something about the Chandos sound what I very much dislike.

[Mirror Image]

I  have a bad feeling about Chandos; too many disappointing experiences like the complete Rachmaninoff songs.

And there's something about the Chandos sound what I very much dislike.

I love Chandos. I think they're a stellar label. I've had very few disappointments with them.

[Scarpia]

And there's something about the Chandos sound what I very much dislike.

I find some older Chandos recordings overreverberant, but I don't have this problem with more recent ones, typically.  Wonderful selection of repertoire on Chandos, though.

[Brian]

A heads-up to Szydmirers: this month a live concert DVD of Antoni Wit conducting Symphonies 3 and 4 is on its way. 5.1 channel surround sound.

[Guido]

I'm surprised that Boulez does Szymanowski...

[Maciek]

Not sure if you've read all of the preceding discussion, so here's a quote:

There is a startling revelation in the interviews on CD-2, where Boulez says he first heard Szymanowski while a student in Lyon in 1942, a recital of Jacques Thibaud, who performed Mythes. Boulez was especially surprized by the first Mythe, "La Fontaine d'Arethuse," as surprised by Mythes as we was upon hearing for the first time the same year on the radio Stravinsky's Nightingale - until then Boulez's musical world was Mozart and Beethoven and Chopin and Liszt.

Boulez's first introduction to modern music, in other words, was through Szymanowski as well as Stravinsky! Under that circumstance, perhaps the surprising thing is that he did not perform him much earlier. In the interviews he confirms what I had read in another interview, namely, that he belatedly turned to performing Janacek and Szymanowki because he had grown stale on Stravinsky & Schoenberg and needed a break from them.

Boulez rates Szymanowski very highly & deplores he is so rarely performed  - indeed expresses exasperation that Shostakovich would be played so much more often: Boulez's repertoire may change, but not Boulez himself, lol.

[Guido]

Not sure if you've read all of the preceding discussion, so here's a quote:

Cheers! My surprise derives from the fact that Szymanowski is such a flagrant sensualist - does any composer do eroticism better? (the contenders are maybe Strauss, Wagner, Korngold...)

[Dax]

perhaps the surprising thing is that he did not perform him much earlier . . . Boulez rates Szymanowski very highly & deplores he is so rarely performed

still doesn't add up, does it?

[schweitzeralan]

I need to listen to the second disc of his Szymanowski recording as I'm interested why it took Boulez so long to record this great composer's music? It certainly is baffling especially considering how much Boulez likes his music.

Recently I acquired S's  two violin concertos.  I haven't devoted all that much time in familiarizing myself with any detailed scrutiny or absorption of the depths of the works.  Early brief listenings have revealed potential depth and complex chordal intrigue and development.  Szymanowski's time has long been come  for his many recordings since the 60's and 70's.  Several postings have delved into the structure and substance of Szymanowski's genius.

[Mirror Image]

Recently I acquired S's  two violin concertos.  I haven't devoted all that much time in familiarizing myself with any detailed scrutiny or absorption of the depths of the works.  Early brief listenings have revealed potential depth and complex chordal intrigue and development.  Szymanowski's time has long been come  for his many recordings since the 60's and 70's.  Several postings have delved into the structure and substance of Szymanowski's genius.

I like the ambiguity of Szymanowski's music. The way he builds these harmonic tensions in his music. A very unsettling sound. His music is constantly moving forward. It seldom backtracks or slides into something familiar. I love his music.