The Boris Johnson thread.

Started by vandermolen, June 15, 2019, 04:21:09 AM

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vandermolen

Quote from: Christo on June 15, 2019, 05:48:25 AM
It's also fair to consider Churchill a disaster until 1940 - and then he had his finest hour (lasting for two years) which deserves him all posterior praise. Thus far Boris only succesfully copied the disaster.  :D
Very true Johan. He seems to have Churchill's bombast and arrogance without any of his genius.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

#21
Quote from: Florestan on June 15, 2019, 07:53:02 AM
;D

Hey, don't get me wrong, Boris Johnson would have been no match for Hitler. But can you really divorce Churchill's achievements and fame from his battle with Hitler? What would have Churchill achieved without the latter?

No, honestly, Churchill got itto power with the specific purpose to oppose, and later defeat, Hitler. What's so strange in my naming the later guy?
I think that you are right about Churchill. Without his defiance of Hitler, Churchill would, I suspect, be seen as something of a political failure. It is true, however, that he was a social reformer in his Liberal days  at the start of the 20th century - something often forgotten.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: drogulus on June 15, 2019, 09:46:57 AM
     Churchill had the most extensive factual information on German rearmament, not German intelligence operations, and his political instincts about NAZI intentions were spot on.

     Churchill defended fortress Britain long enough for Stalin and Roosevelt to defeat Germany.

   

Good point I think.

Thanks to everyone for contributions.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Que

#23
Quote from: vandermolen on June 15, 2019, 11:46:34 AM
Good point I think.

Thanks to everyone for contributions.

You didn't see those coming, did you?  :D

Anyway, since Johnson is able to sell anything to his electorate, some "on the continent" actually hope that he will trick the British in signing off on the withdrawal agreement  (May's deal). 
Why on earth would he do that?  ::) To survive as PM, of course!  :D
He will come up with some bogus story about miraculous changes to the deal,  and the EU will be willing to play along....

It's either that scenario, or he will drag the UK out of the EU without any deal and all hell will break loose. ..

Q

Florestan

#24
Quote from: vandermolen on June 15, 2019, 11:41:04 AM
Very true Johan. He seems to have Churchill's bombast and arrogance without any of his genius.

So what? His finest hour came afterward --- bombast and arrogance included.

No, honestly, let's see:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our [country], whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender

Substitute Hitler for Churchill --- what would have changed for the troops, the rank and files of the party(es), and the people, pray tell honestly?

On a more general note, what's wrong with Horst-Wessel-Lied?

History is written and taught and enforced by the victors.











"Art is no excuse for boring people." - Jules Renard

vandermolen

#25
Quote from: Que on June 15, 2019, 11:58:36 AM


You didn't see those coming, did you?  :D

Anyway, since Johnson is able to sell anything to his electorate, some "on the continent" actually hope that he will trick the British in signing off on the withdrawal agreement  (May's deal). 
Why on earth would he do that?  ::) To survive as PM, of course!  :D
He will come up with some bogus story about miraculous changes to the deal,  and the EU will be willing to play along....

It's either that scenario, or he will drag the UK out of the EU without any deal and all hell will break loose. ..

Q
No I didn't indeed  8)

The odd thing is that I checked the thread yesterday and there were zero responses (not an unusual situation for me ;)) and then there were suddenly loads, mainly from the same people of course but still welcome.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

Quote from: Florestan on June 15, 2019, 12:01:56 PM
So what? His finest hour came afterward --- bombast and arrogance included.

No, honestly, let's see:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our [country], whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender

Substitute Hitler for Churchill --- what would have changed for the troops, the rank and files of the party(es), and the people, pray tell honestly?


Oh yes, of course Churchill's bombast and arrogance was part of his personality I agree and he needed supreme confidence in his 'destiny' to lead the nation through those 'darkest hours'.

I read the other day that Boris Johnson is the only politician who could reverse Brexit and probably get away with it!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

amw

Churchill racked up a body count of approximately 3 million through engineering a genocidal famine in Bengal in the 1940s. I'm not sure Boris Johnson is yet in the same league; he's yet to genocide anyone.

vandermolen

#28
Quote from: amw on June 16, 2019, 12:02:36 AM
Churchill racked up a body count of approximately 3 million through engineering a genocidal famine in Bengal in the 1940s. I'm not sure Boris Johnson is yet in the same league; he's yet to genocide anyone.
I think that 'engineering a genocidal famine...' might be overstating it.
Here is an alternative view, featuring Boris Johnson as well!
https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/did-churchill-cause-the-bengal-famine/
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

vandermolen

So, is Boris's private life relevant to his capacity to fulfil the role of PM?
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Que

I think we didn't need to know anything about his private life to come to the conclusion that he is a conceited fool...  8)

Q

Sergeant Rock

Love this bit from Outnumbered where a German exchange student thinks Boris is a professional comedian ("He plays the mayor of London, a very stupid politician, he's very stupid and funny") and the family can't convince him otherwise  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/v/bQGVBglqKjY


Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

k a rl h e nn i ng

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 23, 2019, 11:55:54 AM
Love this bit from Outnumbered where a German exchange student thinks Boris is a professional comedian ("He plays the mayor of London, a very stupid politician, he's very stupid and funny") and the family can't convince him otherwise  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/v/bQGVBglqKjY


Sarge

And we have a buffoon playing President
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Christo

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on June 23, 2019, 12:05:26 PM
And we have a buffoon playing President
Buffoon is correct, but playing President - hardly.  :D
... music is not only an 'entertainment', nor a mere luxury, but a necessity of the spiritual if not of the physical life, an opening of those magic casements through which we can catch a glimpse of that country where ultimate reality will be found.    RVW, 1948

vandermolen

Quote from: Sergeant Rock on June 23, 2019, 11:55:54 AM
Love this bit from Outnumbered where a German exchange student thinks Boris is a professional comedian ("He plays the mayor of London, a very stupid politician, he's very stupid and funny") and the family can't convince him otherwise  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/v/bQGVBglqKjY


Sarge

Very funny Sarge!
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Herman

Maybe it's not a good start to compare Johnson to Churchill.

The number of Conservatives all over the world who like to pose as heirs to Churchill is virtually unlimited, and it usually betrays a longing for the late colonial era that is rather painful.

It's odd how Johnson's move to the PM post has become inevitable. A man so buffoonishly incompetent...

vandermolen

Quote from: Herman on June 25, 2019, 09:44:47 AM
Maybe it's not a good start to compare Johnson to Churchill.

The number of Conservatives all over the world who like to pose as heirs to Churchill is virtually unlimited, and it usually betrays a longing for the late colonial era that is rather painful.

It's odd how Johnson's move to the PM post has become inevitable. A man so buffoonishly incompetent...

You're right, very worrying.
"Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm" (Churchill).

'The test of a work of art is, in the end, our affection for it, not our ability to explain why it is good' (Stanley Kubrick).

Marc

Quote from: vandermolen on June 25, 2019, 11:06:38 AM
You're right, very worrying.

Well, in this, Britain is not alone. (Even when excluding The Donald.)

Apparently many voters are very pleased with all those buffoons presenting lies and alternative facts. I live in a country where this has been happening now for 18 or so years, too. Thanks to the mega multiple political party system here, no buffoon has managed to grab a real huge win (yet?). But one clown managed a victory a few months ago in the Dutch provincial (and Senate) elections. He's blabbering around in a very eloquent way, and amazingly popular.

Daverz


JBS


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