The Boris Johnson thread.

[Ratliff]

The problem is that the British electoral system is not designed to heal political divides.... 

Yes, Boris got more votes than any of the others.
But if you tally all votes, a small majority voted for parties either against Brexit or in favour of a 2nd referendum.

The combined total vote share for the pro-Brexit parties reached 47.33%, while on the other hand, Labour's vote share combined with the Liberal Democrats, SNP, Greens, Sinn Fein, Plaid Cymru and Alliance gives an overall share of 52.67%.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/more-than-52-of-the-general-election-vote-went-to-pro-remain-parties-1-6424196

Q

Is Labour really decisively anti-Brexit? That may be anti-Boris's plan at any given moment, but I could never discern what they were for, from what I read.

[Todd]

Dig the BoJo mojo, and find very amusing the lamentations about the outcome of a democratic election.  Pfft, stupid voters.

[vandermolen]

Letter in the Guardian:

'At times like these it's good to recall the graceful and reflective words of Dick Tuck's concession speech when he lost a California senate race in 1966: "The people have spoken, the bastards."

[Ken B]

Utter nonsense!!  Do you really equate Remain with Imperialism!??  Remain is about staying part of a wider political/social/economic whole all collaborating.  Brexit has more of a whiff of pulling up a drawbridge and reckoning we'll be "better" on our own.  This will be a slow motion economic/social disaster.

I don't "equate" it. That's a rhetorical dodge. I point out the underlying psychology of the complaints I listed.
But the laments are as I have described: Englishmen bemoaning the prospect of losing the power to govern the non English.

[steve ridgway]

I don't "equate" it. That's a rhetorical dodge. I point out the underlying psychology of the complaints I listed.
But the laments are as I have described: Englishmen bemoaning the prospect of losing the power to govern the non English.

I'd rather think of it as losing the responsibility to govern the non English. Like we celebrate getting rid of America on July 4th .

[Ken B]

I'd rather think of it as losing the responsibility to govern the non English. Like we celebrate getting rid of America on July 4th .

Nice point. "Take up the Pommie's burden of Baner Cymru ..."

[Florestan]

I want the UK to remain united and to have a voice in world affairs. I thought that was much more likely as a member of the EU.

After Brexit the UK will continue to be a very important country. The UK can afford dispensing with the EU membership. Romania or Poland or the Baltic States cannot. Between "homogenization" within EU (which is greatly exaggerated anyway) and "independence" without EU (which means at best and theoretically a limbo and at worst and practically falling back within Russia's sphere of influence) I vastly prefer the former.

EDIT 1: That is, politically and economically wise. Militarily wise, NATO is of paramount importance. Macron is a cretin.

EDIT 2: This is also why my score on a test in another thread indicated I was "strongly globalist". I strongly agreed that the EU made Romania more prosperous and strongly disagreed that the EU undermined the independence of the Romanian parliament.

[Florestan]

Letter in the Guardian:

'At times like these it's good to recall the graceful and reflective words of Dick Tuck's concession speech when he lost a California senate race in 1966: "The people have spoken, the bastards."

No, no, no, a thousand times no! This is wrong, very wrong! Jeffrey, please, tell me you don't actually subscribe to this.

[vandermolen]

After Brexit the UK will continue to be a very important country. The UK can afford dispensing with the EU membership. Romania or Poland or the Baltic States cannot. Between "homogenization" within EU (which is greatly exaggerated anyway) and "independence" without EU (which means at best and theoretically a limbo and at worst and practically falling back within Russia's sphere of influence) I vastly prefer the former.

EDIT 1: That is, politically and economically wise. Militarily wise, NATO is of paramount importance.

EDIT 2: This is also why my score on a test in another thread indicated I was "strongly globalist". I strongly agreed that the EU made Romania more prosperous and strongly disagreed that the EU undermined the independence of the Romanian parliament.

Thanks for this Andrei and I like to think it's true. As for the 'bastards' quote I was just amused by the paradox of the seemingly reasonable 'the people have spoken' with the underlying 'real' thought - 'the bastards'. I don't think that everyone who voted for Brexit was a bastard (that would include some friends of mine and family members).

[vandermolen]

No, no, no, a thousand times no! This is wrong, very wrong! Jeffrey, please, tell me you don't actually subscribe to this.

See above Andrei.

[Ken B]

No, no, no, a thousand times no! This is wrong, very wrong! Jeffrey, please, tell me you don't actually subscribe to this.

I think that quote is actually pretty funny. At least it shows a willingness to accept the result, which not all election losers do these days. You can accept that they have the right to decide and still think their decision wrong.

[Florestan]

Thanks for this Andrei and I like to think it's true.

Do you see any reason for it's not being true?

As for the 'bastards' quote I was just amused by the paradox of the seemingly reasonable 'the people have spoken' with the underlying 'real' thought - 'the bastards'.

Amusing it is, I admit.

I don't think that everyone who voted for Brexit was a bastard (that would include some friends of mine and family members).

I am not British but I do think that none of the common British people who voted for Brexit was a bastard. (I do think Nigel Farage is a bastard, though)

Fwiw, I have close relatives living and working in the UK. They don't seem particularly worried by Brexit.

Question: will your way of life, or that of your friends and family members, change dramatically after Brexit is done for good?

[Florestan]

I think that quote is actually pretty funny. At least it shows a willingness to accept the result, which not all election losers do these days. You can accept that they have the right to decide and still think their decision wrong.

Twenty years ago I could have said "the bastards" myself. (I actually did say it). But in time I realized that this is exactly the kind of attitude and reaction that ensures "the bastards deplorables" will keep voting the way they did.

Either we accept democracy (ie, one man one vote), or we don't. There was a time I didn't. Today, I do.

[vandermolen]

Do you see any reason for it's not being true?


Amusing it is, I admit.

I am not British but I do think that none of the common British people who voted for Brexit was a bastard. (I do think Nigel Farage is a bastard, though)

Fwiw, I have close relatives living and working in the UK. They don't seem particularly worried by Brexit.

Question: will your way of life, or that of your friends and family members, change dramatically after Brexit is done for good?

Well Andrei, I think that the UK would have had more influence inside the EU than outside it. I don't yet know the answer to your last question - time will tell I guess.

I fear that there will be a 'brain drain' as a result of Brexit. The already short-staffed NHS , for example, is quite reliant, I think, on doctors and nurses from EU countries who may now feel unwelcome in the UK. The same could happen to business and industry which may now relocate overseas. I hope that I'm being alarmist.

We do, however, agree about Nigel Farage (whom my daughter has interviewed when she worked on a local newspaper). 

[Florestan]

Well Andrei, I think that the UK would have had more influence inside Europe than outside it.

As I previously said (in various occasions, not just on this thread), I am a staunch partisan and defender of the EU, for all its faults (which are many). Honestly, I'd rather be ruled by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels than by Putin or whoever is going to succeed him.

As my avatar testifies, I am a convinced Russophile culturally speaking. As my posts testify, I am a convinced Russophobe politically speaking.   

I don't yet know the answer to your last question - time will tell I guess.

Yes, wait and see, what else can you/we do?

We do, however, agree about Nigel Farage (whom my daughter has interviewed when she worked on a local newspaper) 

He's an idiot.

[Mandryka]

 I was planning on upping sticks and moving to France. I'm reluctant to do that now, because I'm not sure how secure I'd be, how my tax position might evolve, what sort of health care I could expect etc. This is quite a dramatic change.

And something already. I went to Tesco today and there were no aubergines!!!!!!!!!!!! This doesn't bode well, I think in a couple of years we'll all be eating bread and dripping again, drinking Double Diamond.

[Christabel]

As I previously said (in various occasions, not just on this thread), I am a staunch partisan and defender of the EU, for all its faults (which are many). Honestly, I'd rather be ruled by faceless bureaucrats in Brussels than by Putin or whoever is going to succeed him.

As my avatar testifies, I am a convinced Russophile culturally speaking. As my posts testify, I am a convinced Russophobe politically speaking.   

Yes, wait and see, what else can you/we do?

He's an idiot.

He speaks well of you, though.

[Christo]

As my avatar testifies, I am a convinced Russophile culturally speaking. As my posts testify, I am a convinced Russophobe politically speaking.   

Amen. Among all the 50+ nations/countries I've been frequenting over the last 40 years, I think I cannot deny that Russia (also Romania, but that's of course obvious ) is among the places I felt most at home. Saint-Peterburg, to mention one name, perhaps my favourite city of them all, but Khanty-Mansiisk another place I simply cannot forget - nor so many other places & people.
In Saint-Peterburg I know people who worked with Putin in his uncorrupted years - he had. Whatever people think about Russia, there's hardly another place in this globe I love more - okay, perhaps Turkey and Georgia, but that's about it, because Russia is bigger, a never-ending story 

[vandermolen]

Amen. Among all the 50+ nations/countries I've been frequenting over the last 40 years, I think I cannot deny that Russia (also Romania, but that's of course obvious ) is among the places I felt most at home. Saint-Peterburg, to mention one name, perhaps my favourite city of them all, but Khanty-Mansiisk another place I simply cannot forget - nor so many other places & people.
In Saint-Peterburg I know people who worked with Putin in his uncorrupted years - he had. Whatever people think about Russia, there's hardly another place in this globe I love more - okay, perhaps Turkey and Georgia, but that's about it, because Russia is bigger, a never-ending story 

For obvious reasons the Netherlands is the other country where I feel most at home.

[Que]

For obvious reasons the Netherlands is the other country where I feel most at home.

We are ready to adopt you! 

Do you have dual nationality?

Q