And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[JBS]

Sometimes government is good, sometimes bad. Evidence, reason etc. tells us when.
Libertarian in government not banning big sodas (Bloomberg).
Goverment intervention has to have benefits
It's case by case.

Liberatarianism starts off on the presumption that government is always bad, unless there is evidence otherwise.

For instance, Big Pharma gets to keep drug prices high because it uses patents and the regulatory process to limit competition.  Patents and regulation are obviously government phenomena.  The Young Turk solution of allowing government to set prices is therefore merely adding on more government control to solve a problem that is caused by too much government. The real solution is reforming the patent and regulation process so it can't be manipulated. And as I pointed out before, the Young Turk group never seems to mention the role that patent and regulation abuse have in keeping drug prices high.  That alone should tell you how unreliable they are as a source of accurate information.

[71 dB]

Liberatarianism starts off on the presumption that government is always bad, unless there is evidence otherwise.

For instance, Big Pharma gets to keep drug prices high because it uses patents and the regulatory process to limit competition.  Patents and regulation are obviously government phenomena.  The Young Turk solution of allowing government to set prices is therefore merely adding on more government control to solve a problem that is caused by too much government. The real solution is reforming the patent and regulation process so it can't be manipulated. And as I pointed out before, the Young Turk group never seems to mention the role that patent and regulation abuse have in keeping drug prices high.  That alone should tell you how unreliable they are as a source of accurate information.

You holding the patents doesn't mean you can ask anything. The buyer needs to be willing to pay. Drugs are problematic in the way that you need the drugs, you REALLY need, so you can't say no. The mess is an government phenomena because of corruption. If the government functioned normally, we would not be in this situation.  The solution is to remove corruption. That's the "TYT" solution. That's how it works elsewhere like Canada. They have patents and the regulatory processes too, but also much less corruption so things work and the prices are much lower. That's why TYT doesn't "mention" it, because the real problem is corruption, Big Pharma buying the politicians.

[Ratliff]

DiMo is a new member, so I thought it appropriate to warn him that 71db's endorsement of the Young Turks should be taken with a heaping pile of salt grains.

New to the site doesn't mean born yesterday.

[dissily Mordentroge]

Sorry, but you need to actually listen to them. It's not their fault you have delusions about their predetermined narratives.

Today narratives, if that's what they are, are also predetermined by mobile software (cell phones in the US) facilitating our ability with a single click on 'Not interested in Trump's sexual kinks', or some such. We are given a powerful means of constructing our own reality. Not that 'reality' is ever involved.

[SimonNZ]

Youtube is the only thing that can do that

No, the bibliography and footnotes in a nice thick book will do that. As will reading book reviews and recommended reading lists from people you respect. Or just browsing a library or bookshop.

Does your Kyle ever recommend books to his followers?

[71 dB]

No, the bibliography and footnotes in a nice thick book will do that. As will reading book reviews and recommended reading lists from people you respect. Or just browsing a library or bookshop.

Does your Kyle ever recommend books to his followers?

Kyle often mentions Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, but otherwise I haven't seen him recommend books, but he has 13,000 videos on Youtube and I have seen a fraction of them all. It's possible he mentions books he has read and recommends in his chats with Cory.

[71 dB]

Today narratives, if that's what they are, are also predetermined by mobile software (cell phones in the US) facilitating our ability with a single click on 'Not interested in Trump's sexual kinks', or some such. We are given a powerful means of constructing our own reality. Not that 'reality' is ever involved.

So, what kind of reality have you constructed for yourself?

[dissily Mordentroge]

So, what kind of reality have you constructed for yourself?

I cleave to Ayn Rand's epistemology in this (not her political philosophy)
We are capable of knowing reality. If we choose to ignore it, it will soon catch up with us.
In fact it may be about to remove us all from the planet.

[SimonNZ]

Kyle often mentions Noam Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, but otherwise I haven't seen him recommend books, but he has 13,000 videos on Youtube and I have seen a fraction of them all. It's possible he mentions books he has read and recommends in his chats with Cory.

Will you get a copy of Manufacturing Consent and read it?

[JBS]

You holding the patents doesn't mean you can ask anything. The buyer needs to be willing to pay. Drugs are problematic in the way that you need the drugs, you REALLY need, so you can't say no. The mess is an government phenomena because of corruption. If the government functioned normally, we would not be in this situation.  The solution is to remove corruption. That's the "TYT" solution. That's how it works elsewhere like Canada. They have patents and the regulatory processes too, but also much less corruption so things work and the prices are much lower. That's why TYT doesn't "mention" it, because the real problem is corruption, Big Pharma buying the politicians.

On the contrary, the patent and regulation abuse is the source of the corruption. It's a very clear example of what you call the oligarchy at work.  Canada and the other places don't allow the abuse, and that's how they get lower prices. Under the TYT solution, that abuse, and the corruption would remain, and in fact get worse because of government's involvement in price control. Big Pharma would still be buying the politicians and regulators. In fact, they would be buying them more because they would need them more. But if the process was reformed, buying politicians and regulators would be of no benefit to them, so the corruption would end of itself.

So you see, TYT's solution is just a formula for increased corruption. It's a very clear instance where your reliance on them is causing you to not understand the actual problem.

The more government involvement, the more chance for corruption to develop. It's a very simple idea. If you want less oligarchy, you want less government. You want more government, you get more oligarchy whether or not you want oligarchy.

[dissily Mordentroge]

On the contrary, the patent and regulation abuse is the source of the corruption. It's a very clear example of what you call the oligarchy at work.  Canada and the other places don't allow the abuse, and that's how they get lower prices. Under the TYT solution, that abuse, and the corruption would remain, and in fact get worse because of government's involvement in price control. Big Pharma would still be buying the politicians and regulators. In fact, they would be buying them more because they would need them more. But if the process was reformed, buying politicians and regulators would be of no benefit to them, so the corruption would end of itself.

So you see, TYT's solution is just a formula for increased corruption. It's a very clear instance where your reliance on them is causing you to not understand the actual problem.

The more government involvement, the more chance for corruption to develop. It's a very simple idea. If you want less oligarchy, you want less government. You want more government, you get more oligarchy whether or not you want oligarchy.

A very simple idea? It's simplistic Randian nonsense. The delusion that political ideology of any kind can mitigate human behaviour is the prime misconception of all such systems. Instance The Chinese People's Republic. Putting aside for now the blatant contradiction that in no way is it 'the peoples', witness the scale of corruption within China. Contrast this with the assertion a totally free enterprise government has no power to issue 'commercial in confidence' favours to segments of industry. As we've seen over and over this is another delusion disproven by simple facts such as 'jobs for the boys' . There's no need for members of such governments to hand out exclusive licences/favours etc to their industry supporters. All such moves can and do happen behind the scenes when necessary with nice little contributions to electoral funds as a tempting reward.

[JBS]

A very simple idea? It's simplistic Randian nonsense. The delusion that political ideology of any kind can mitigate human behaviour is the prime misconception of all such systems. Instance The Chinese People's Republic. Putting aside for now the blatant contradiction that in no way is it 'the peoples', witness the scale of corruption within China. Contrast this with the assertion a totally free enterprise government has no power to issue 'commercial in confidence' favours to segments of industry. As we've seen over and over this is another delusion disproven by simple facts such as 'jobs for the boys' . There's no need for members of such governments to hand out exclusive licences/favours etc to their industry supporters. All such moves can and do happen behind the scenes when necessary with nice little contributions to electoral funds as a tempting reward.

The idea is not to modify human behavior  but to limit its impact as much as possible.

Are you aware that Rand herself said that capitalism and free markets, as she defined them, has never existed in human history? I've blown a few Objectivist minds with that bit of info over the years.

[dissily Mordentroge]

The idea is not to modify human behavior  but to limit its impact as much as possible.

Are you aware that Rand herself said that capitalism and free markets, as she defined them, has never existed in human history? I've blown a few Objectivist minds with that bit of info over the years.

I'm well aquainted with every published word that came from her, and a few not published but that's another story.
I am both optimistic and profoundly pessimistic when it comes to human behavior claiming that until and unless we change what we are, especially in relation to group tribal behaviour we are doomed to engineer the extinction of our species. We've already shown a profound skill in removing thousands of others from the planet .
Within this perspective I experience all discussions of ideology as no more than dancing on the deck of the Titanic just before  - - - - - - - - -

[71 dB]

Will you get a copy of Manufacturing Consent and read it?

I don't have such plans, but you never know.

[71 dB]

On the contrary, the patent and regulation abuse is the source of the corruption. It's a very clear example of what you call the oligarchy at work.  Canada and the other places don't allow the abuse, and that's how they get lower prices. Under the TYT solution, that abuse, and the corruption would remain, and in fact get worse because of government's involvement in price control. Big Pharma would still be buying the politicians and regulators. In fact, they would be buying them more because they would need them more. But if the process was reformed, buying politicians and regulators would be of no benefit to them, so the corruption would end of itself.

So you see, TYT's solution is just a formula for increased corruption. It's a very clear instance where your reliance on them is causing you to not understand the actual problem.

The more government involvement, the more chance for corruption to develop. It's a very simple idea. If you want less oligarchy, you want less government. You want more government, you get more oligarchy whether or not you want oligarchy.

TYT says US should do what Canada does. Anyway, I have wasted enough time on you.

[JBS]

TYT says US should do what Canada does. Anyway, I have wasted enough time on you.

Problem is, Canada does two things. TYT is picking the one that doesn't actually work and ignoring the one that does solve the problem. And until you understand that fact, you are wasting YOUR time.

[Madiel]

The real solution is reforming the patent and regulation process so it can't be manipulated.

Reforming how?

There are undoubtedly situations where patents are granted too readily. I'm not sure that drugs are a case in point, though...

[71 dB]

Problem is, Canada does two things. TYT is picking the one that doesn't actually work and ignoring the one that does solve the problem. And until you understand that fact, you are wasting YOUR time.

Frankly I don't know the details and definitely not what Canada does. I know Canada is much less corrupt and has lower drug prices. I know Big Pharma buy the politicians and I know TYT is against corruption.

[JBS]

Reforming how?

There are undoubtedly situations where patents are granted too readily. I'm not sure that drugs are a case in point, though...

For one thing, the pharma companies are able by minute changes to the product, to extend patents well beyond the original span.
It's actually the regulatory process which is most abused. Thanks to the pharma companies, it's excessively hard to bring a generic to market. Other countries are better at it, from my understanding.

71db is right about "Big Pharma". But he is depending on sources that omit mention of the most important part of the problem. TYT's "solution" merely offers up another group of regulators for Big Pharma to buy.

[71 dB]

71dB is right about "Big Pharma". But he is depending on sources that omit mention of the most important part of the problem. TYT's "solution" merely offers up another group of regulators for Big Pharma to buy.

Have you watched TYT enough to know what their "solution" is? I can't say if they agree with you or not. Can you? Also, this is only ONE issue you keep talking about. Even if TYT was wrong about this (I doubt it) how about everything else?

Abuse of patent laws doesn't mean you can automatically milk money. Someone needs to be willing to pay for your patented product. If Canadian cheaper drugs were allowed to be imported into the US, the people would choose them over pricy American drugs meaning Big Pharma would have to lower their prices to compete with Canadian drugs, but politicians don't allow import of Canadian drugs because they have been bought. There are ways to avoid the problem of patent/regulation law abuse, but they are not used because of corruption.