And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[71 dB]

Single payer means the government controls that part of the economy, because only what the government pays for will get done.   He who has the money makes the rules, etc.
In the case of fire departments, that's a good thing. In the case of health care that may not be such a good thing.

So WHY is single payer BETTER than US system EVERYWHERE? LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE!! How the fuck are you going to give healthcare to everyone without single payer??

[71 dB]

Obama made the charge seem preposterous. And he came across as calm and reasonable.

Obama had charisma. So has Bernie. Different kind of charisma, but charisma nevertheless.

[JBS]

Of course they do, but Bernie can deal with that because his progressive ideas resonate with the people. They called Obama a socialist. Didn't stop Obama winning.

Obama won because of two things

First, he ran as a corporate centrist, not as a progressive.  Remember that he supported the bailout of Wall Street.  In office he was more progressive, but his campaign presented him as a thorough centrist. He didn't offer progressive ideas, so he won no votes that way.

Second, blacks turned out to vote for him in record numbers simply out of pride in the fact that a black man was a major party nominee. And not a few whites voted for him for a similar reason.

[JBS]

So WHY is single payer BETTER than US system EVERYWHERE? LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE!! How the fuck are you going to give healthcare to everyone without single payer??

We Americans have evidence.
Medicare for seniors is single payer, a bureaucratic mess that consistently produces mediocre outcomes, limits patient choices, and underpays everyone.
Medicaid (for the poor) is single payer, and  has the same problems as Medicare, and often to a more severe degree.
Veterans Administration (for military veterans) is single provider and is such a mess that it's a wonder anyone uses it unless they have to.

So the evidence the American voter has supports the idea single payer is not better than what they have now, and probably worse.

[71 dB]

Obama won because of two things

First, he ran as a corporate centrist, not as a progressive.  Remember that he supported the bailout of Wall Street.  In office he was more progressive, but his campaign presented him as a thorough centrist. He didn't offer progressive ideas, so he won no votes that way.

Second, blacks turned out to vote for him in record numbers simply out of pride in the fact that a black man was a major party nominee. And not a few whites voted for him for a similar reason.

Obama governed more centrist than he ran and a lot of people were disappointed he wasn't as progressive as he campaigned. Here's Obama and Bernie in 2006

https://www.youtube.com/v/DkYL0qv4RR4

Bernie has strong support among blacks


I need to take a break now from this! I go insane!!!!

[71 dB]

We Americans have evidence.
Medicare for seniors is single payer, a bureaucratic mess that consistently produces mediocre outcomes, limits patient choices, and underpays everyone.
Medicaid (for the poor) is single payer, and  has the same problems as Medicare, and often to a more severe degree.
Veterans Administration (for military veterans) is single provider and is such a mess that it's a wonder anyone uses it unless they have to.

So the evidence the American voter has supports the idea single payer is not better than what they have now, and probably worse.

Maybe the corrupt politicians don't want it succeed? Just like public schools. If you underfund them they fail and you can say private schools are better.

Bernie's medicare for all would have proper funding. It's not medicare. It's better.
Do you really think Bernie who has fought for decades to make the life of Americans better would propose worse healthcare? Why the fuck would he do that? Of course he wants to give Americans as good healthcare as possible and you can believe him because he doesn't take insurance company money.

[JBS]

Maybe the corrupt politicians don't want it succeed? Just like public schools. If you underfund them they fail and you can say private schools are better.

Bernie's medicare for all would have proper funding. It's not medicare. It's better.
Do you really think Bernie who has fought for decades to make the life of Americans better would propose worse healthcare? Why the fuck would he do that? Of course he wants to give Americans as good healthcare as possible and you can believe him because he doesn't take insurance company money.

So the politicians who underfund Medicare now will fully fund Berniecare? Do you actually believe that? Your naivete is touching....

Bernie may think MfA is better. But lots of us think he's wrong.

[71 dB]

So the politicians who underfund Medicare now will fully fund Berniecare? Do you actually believe that? Your naivete is touching....

Bernie may think MfA is better. But lots of us think he's wrong.

Medicare is for old people. Old people are sick and need a lot of healthcare services. Young people need less. Expanding Medicare to all population expands the risk pool and it becomes easier to fund. In the revolution those underfunfing politicians are kicked out. They can't buy elections. That's what they fear. That's why Bernie is hated by the elite. In democracy the people choose the president, not the elite.

The US society will never be better if people think the way you think.

[JBS]

Medicare is for old people. Old people are sick and need a lot of healthcare services. Young people need less. Expanding Medicare to all population expands the risk pool and it becomes easier to fund. In the revolution those underfunfing politicians are kicked out. They can't buy elections. That's what they fear. That's why Bernie is hated by the elite. In democracy the people choose the president, not the elite.

The US society will never be better if people think the way you think.

Your understanding of how Medicare is funded is as limited as your understanding of US politics in general.

The underfunding politicians won't be kicked out.   If Mitch McConnell is voted out of his Senate seat by the people of Kentucky (unlikely in anything approaching the near or medium term) he won't be replace by a Bernie supporter.  He'll be replaced by either another Republican or a Democrat who is similar to Joe Manchin, both of whom will vote to underfund Medicare (in whatever form it has after 2020) because, contrary to Drogulus and his theory, money is not infinite, and even if we don't fund more wars, there's other things that need attention.

[drogulus]

Your understanding of how Medicare is funded is as limited as your understanding of US politics in general.

The underfunding politicians won't be kicked out.   If Mitch McConnell is voted out of his Senate seat by the people of Kentucky (unlikely in anything approaching the near or medium term) he won't be replace by a Bernie supporter.  He'll be replaced by either another Republican or a Democrat who is similar to Joe Manchin, both of whom will vote to underfund Medicare (in whatever form it has after 2020) because, contrary to Drogulus and his theory, money is not infinite, and even if we don't fund more wars, there's other things that need attention.

     I don't know what infinite money means. There's no limit on how many are used as long as there are resources that can be deployed by using them. That's where dollars come from, that how we got as many as we have. What theory says some day we won't be able to do that any more because dollars are not infinite? How will we find out we passed the limit, will the dollars not work?

[SimonNZ]

BBC:

Cory Booker out of race for Democratic nomination

"The African-American New Jersey senator had failed to qualify for the Democratic debate on Tuesday in Iowa.

The former rising star's message of unity at a time of deeply divided politics failed to win over voters in the crowded 2020 field.

There are now 12 Democrats remaining in the race for the White House.

"Today I'm suspending my campaign for president with the same spirit with which it began," Mr Booker said in a video announcing the end of his campaign.

In an email to supporters he said: "I'm proud of the ideas we brought to this Democratic primary and, more importantly, the values we championed throughout - that the only way we make progress is by bringing people together - even when we were told that our approach couldn't win."[...]


Wonkette:

Marianne Williamson Levitates Out Of Presidential Race

"Marianne Williamson's presidential campaign has ended its presence on our physical plane. This is devastating news for supporters of the "Orb Queen," who thought it was a great idea to replace an incompetent, anti-science president with another incompetent, anti-science president ... but with crystals!

Williamson announced last week that she was firing her campaign staff and would rely on unpaid Oompa Loompas to continue her long-shot bid for the White House. But you can't align the nation's chakras with negative cash flow. So, Williamson finally called it quits Friday."[...]

[71 dB]

Your understanding of how Medicare is funded is as limited as your understanding of US politics in general.

I admit I don't know the details of medicare, but I understand the US needs single payer healthcare no matter how medicare is funded. "Medicare for all" is just a term used to sell single payer to the public. Single payer or universal healthcare are alternative names.

The underfunding politicians won't be kicked out.   If Mitch McConnell is voted out of his Senate seat by the people of Kentucky (unlikely in anything approaching the near or medium term) he won't be replace by a Bernie supporter.  He'll be replaced by either another Republican or a Democrat who is similar to Joe Manchin, both of whom will vote to underfund Medicare (in whatever form it has after 2020) because, contrary to Drogulus and his theory, money is not infinite, and even if we don't fund more wars, there's other things that need attention.

Money in politics means the more money you have, the better changes you have in elections. Bernie (and other progressives) want money out of politics and if that happens, the criteria to be elected is something different, such as how well your politicies resonate with the voters.

[71 dB]

Trump Tries To Attack Bernie Sanders, Bernie EVISCERATES HIM!

https://www.youtube.com/v/9zWipXDoHqM

[SimonNZ]

Eviscerates? He gave a boringly predictable one line reply, in no way a zinger.

The bobble head in that video said "the person with the most likes and retweets is how you know who the winner is". Do you agree? Do you think this is good reporting rather than just some nonce fanboy with a laptop camera?

Pick up a book, already. I'm pretty sure bernieberniebernie even wrote one himself. You could start there.

[Karl Henning]

In line with what we've been trying to point out to Poju:

Swing voters on Trump: 'He drives me crazy but he'll get my vote'


Nominate a "progressive," and they ain't going to swing back.

Trump knows he can count on his core supporters, the ones frequently seen on television screens in Maga hats during his rallies. They will excuse him of almost anything. But victory in counties like Howard – struggling midwestern farm territory with about 9,000 residents and 98% white – depends on a different set of voters. Among them are women like spa owner Holly Rasmussen, who backed Obama twice and then flipped to Trump because she wanted to "shake things up".

[71 dB]

Eviverayes? He gave a predictable one line reply in no way a zinger.

The bobble head in that video said "the person with the most likes and retweets is how you know who the winner is". Do you agree? Do you think this is good reporting rather than just some nonce fanboy with a laptop camera?

Pick up a book, already. I'm pretty sure bernieberniebernie even wrote one himself. You could start there.

Apparently you missed the whole point: Trump has NOTHING concrete against Bernie. All he can do is shout "Crazy Bernie!" and if he does that, Bernie will respond "If giving people healthcare and living wage is crazy then call me crazy!" and that's that.

The "bobble head" in that video has got 100 times better insight into US politics than you. His videos look amateurish as hell and the guy has somewhat funny look face, but what he says is pretty damn smart stuff for a young dude.

I choose myself which book I read and when. I wonder what kind of books you have been reading judging from your posts. Trump's The Art of the Deal? 

[SimonNZ]

No, like you the guy in that video has all the certainty that comes from hardly knowing a subject at all. If you knew a little more you'd know how little you know. I've read more than you have so I have, if nothing else, I have a sense of how very very little I know. (I think there's a graph out there somewhere to illustrate that point)

There's a thread for what people are reading, btw:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,68.9600.html

[71 dB]

In line with what we've been trying to point out to Poju:

Swing voters on Trump: 'He drives me crazy but he'll get my vote'


Nominate a "progressive," and they ain't going to swing back.

Bernie is not after the votes of the too far gones. They will vote for Trump no matter what. He is after everybody else, 2/3 of the country. The democrats, independents and even some Trump voters who are not so convinced about Trump anymore. The strategy is to inspire young people to vote in masses. Have a high turnout. Hillary Clinton wasn't inspiring. Bernie Sanders is.

Your link looks like a hit piece against Bernie. How you don't see it is beyond my comprehension.

[71 dB]

No, like you the guy in that video has all the certainty that comes from hardly knowing a subject at all. If you knew a little more you'd know how little you know. I've read more than you have so I have, if nothing else, I have a sense of how very very little I know. (I think there's a graph out there somewhere to illustrate that point)

There's a thread for what people are reading, btw:

https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,68.9600.html

How do you know YOUR certainty doesn't come from hardly knowing the subject at all? You are not even American. He is.

If you have read a book about Bill Clinton's triangulations, you should understand better where the US politics is now.

[SimonNZ]

Your link looks like a hit piece against Bernie. How you don't see it is beyond my comprehension.

That's the second time you've called a Guardian article anti-Bernie in as many days. I can only assume you don't actually read them, just assume anything less than cheerleading is a "hit piece".