And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[JBS]

If you save money not paying premiums etc. many realize higher taxes is a good deal for them.

You are forgetting that Bernie's plan is a campaign document that will have little to do with whatever would emerge from Congress. There might not be premiums (btw, seniors pay a premium to be on Medicare, though for most it's deducted from their Social Security payment and therefore invisible) but there will be deductibles, co-payments, exclusions from coverage, and bureaucrats deciding which procedures and drugs will and will not be paid for.

Above all, there's the simple fact that for most people Medicare for All will not improve their health care, and probably degrade it.

[71 dB]

You are forgetting that Bernie's plan is a campaign document that will have little to do with whatever would emerge from Congress. There might not be premiums (btw, seniors pay a premium to be on Medicare, though for most it's deducted from their Social Security payment and therefore invisible) but there will be deductibles, co-payments, exclusions from coverage, and bureaucrats deciding which procedures and drugs will and will not be paid for.

Above all, there's the simple fact that for most people Medicare for All will not improve their health care, and probably degrade it.

You are forgetting US needs to join other countries and get all people covered.
Your claims of degraging care are WITHOUT ANY FACTS/PROOF!!

WHY THE FUCK DO I KEEP ANSWERING YOU? I SHOULD BE IGNORING YOU! 

[JBS]

You are forgetting US needs to join other countries and get all people covered.

You are forgetting that single-payer is not the only way to that.  A public option plan would do it, without degrading the health care of those people who already have it.

Your claims of degraging care are WITHOUT ANY FACTS/PROOF!!

WHY THE FACT DO I KEEP ANSWERING YOU? I SHOULD BE IGNORING YOU!

Proof is that people here who rely on government funded health care get perceptibly worse care than those on private plans.

To put it more concretely, the level of Finnish health care is, as best I can tell from reading about it, comparable to American private care here, and the same or better (usually the latter) than publicly funded health care here (meaning Medicare and Medicaid).

[71 dB]

You are forgetting that single-payer is not the only way to that.  A public option plan would do it, without degrading the health care of those people who already have it.

Single payer is a proven system to cover everyone. Public option leads to cherry-picking and is likely to collapse due to that and the system goes back to private insurance system and corporates get to say "We told you, public sector doesn't work". Well, it works when the private sector doesn't compromise it. Single payer doesn't degrading the health care for anyone. It's likely to improve it if anything.

Proof is that people here who rely on government funded health care get perceptibly worse care than those on private plans.

I don't know about that. but sounds like medicare as it is is underfunded. Medicare for all raises taxes as you know. That's why it will be properly funded. Those same doctors/nurses/hospitals who provide care for people privately insured now will be providing the care within medicare for all system. It's not like they suddenly become worse doctors/nurses just because the money comes from the government instead of insurance companies. On the contrary, the paperwork becomes much simpler and doctors have more time doing what they are supposed to do.

To put it more concretely, the level of Finnish health care is, as best I can tell from reading about it, comparable to American private care here, and the same or better (usually the latter) than publicly funded health care here (meaning Medicare and Medicaid).

Yet Finns pay half of what Americans pay for that healthcare and everyone is covered. Do you really think the US can't do the same Finland does? You have plenty of countries for a well-functioning healthcare model. Pick one. France? UK? Finland? Canada? Germany? Norway?

The quality of care is not he problem. The US has average quality of care as far as I know. That's ok. Could be better, could be worse. The problem is the insane incentives created by the private insurance system, Big Pharma and corruption making it so that millions of Americans don't have access to basic healthcare, avoid going to doctor fearing something is found they can't afford, double the cost of healthcare compared to other nations and so on. I have wrote about these issues here a million times.

[71 dB]

Dems were able to double up on providing comic relief this week.  I mean, who knew the Iowa caucuses were coming and who had time to test new-fangled voting technology?

I know, the Russians hacked the Dem voting system.

It was intentional "incompetence" to give Pete Buttigieg a week of unearned victory laps in the media prior to New Hamphire and to sabotage Bernie Sanders' campaign.

Bernie Sanders won the popular vote with a clear margin (even the 2nd round voting by about 2600 votes) and once all the mistakes are corrected, should have won most S.D.E.s and it seems Both Buttigieg and Sanders will get 13 pledged delecates, but it will take some time, because the establishment want Buttigieg to benefit from the victory narrative.

[Todd]

It was intentional "incompetence" to give Pete Buttigieg a week of unearned victory laps in the media prior to New Hamphire and to sabotage Bernie Sanders' campaign.

Bernie Sanders won the popular vote with a clear margin (even the 2nd round voting by about 2600 votes) and once all the mistakes are corrected, should have won most S.D.E.s and it seems Both Buttigieg and Sanders will get 13 pledged delecates, but it will take some time, because the establishment want Buttigieg to benefit from the victory narrative.

You are insane. 

[71 dB]

You are insane.

Call me insane, but that's how it is. You know DNC doesn't want Bernie to become the nominee. They rather let Trump win than allow Bernie to become the president. Buttigieg donated $42k to the firm that developped the app. Also, Buttigieg demanded the last poll before Iowa caucus to not be released.  You are yourself a simpleton if you don't see how this was orchestrated for Buttigieg and against Bernie.

[71 dB]

Why am I off your ignore list?

You are not off my ignore list and you have reminded my fast you you are in the list.

[71 dB]

Kavanaugh Is On The Supreme Court Because Of Michael Bloomberg

https://www.youtube.com/v/tHICKk8VDTM

[71 dB]

Jimmy Dore Calls Out Trump/Pelosi On Tucker Carlson

https://www.youtube.com/v/gyub6M8Qfqs

[JBS]

Kavanaugh Is On The Supreme Court Because Of Michael Bloomberg

https://www.youtube.com/v/tHICKk8VDTM

No, Kavanaugh is on the Supreme Court because of the Federalist Society and Mitch McConnell

[Karl Henning]

No, Kavanaugh is on the Supreme Court because of the Federalist Society and Mitch McConnell

I guess Bernie's afraid of Bloomberg.

[JBS]

Single payer is a proven system to cover everyone. Public option leads to cherry-picking and is likely to collapse due to that and the system goes back to private insurance system and corporates get to say "We told you, public sector doesn't work". Well, it works when the private sector doesn't compromise it. Single payer doesn't degrading the health care for anyone. It's likely to improve it if anything.

I don't know about that. but sounds like medicare as it is is underfunded. Medicare for all raises taxes as you know. That's why it will be properly funded. Those same doctors/nurses/hospitals who provide care for people privately insured now will be providing the care within medicare for all system. It's not like they suddenly become worse doctors/nurses just because the money comes from the government instead of insurance companies. On the contrary, the paperwork becomes much simpler and doctors have more time doing what they are supposed to do.

Yet Finns pay half of what Americans pay for that healthcare and everyone is covered. Do you really think the US can't do the same Finland does? You have plenty of countries for a well-functioning healthcare model. Pick one. France? UK? Finland? Canada? Germany? Norway?

The quality of care is not he problem. The US has average quality of care as far as I know. That's ok. Could be better, could be worse. The problem is the insane incentives created by the private insurance system, Big Pharma and corruption making it so that millions of Americans don't have access to basic healthcare, avoid going to doctor fearing something is found they can't afford, double the cost of healthcare compared to other nations and so on. I have wrote about these issues here a million times.

First, public option will probably lead via cherry picking to single payer as employers unload health care from benefits with the excuse that  employees can use the public option. Drogulus made that point several months ago, and I think he's right to think so.

Second, anyone says the American political system will fully fund MfA is either lying or delusional.  Ain't going to happen. Period.

Third, because of the government regulation and funding involved in single payer, care will be  rationed in one way or another. It's only a matter of how severely it will be rationed. Procedures will be disallowed, drugs not approved for payment, hospital stays limited, and all the other rigamarole, just like now with private insurance, or worse than now, just like Medicare and Medicaid.

Fourth, quality of care is the fundamental problem: single payer will make it worse.

[71 dB]

single payer will make it worse.

Even if it made it worse, at least everyone would be covered. That's something, isn't it? Or are you an asshole who is fine with denying care for millions just to keep quality care for youself? What are your values man?

[71 dB]

I guess Bernie's afraid of Bloomberg.

What are the policies of Bloomberg you especially like Karl? Soda ban perhaps? The only good thing about Bloomberg becoming the president would be at least Trump didn't get his 2nd term, but do you really think Bloomberg could beat Trump? 

[71 dB]

First, public option will probably lead via cherry picking to single payer as employers unload health care from benefits with the excuse that  employees can use the public option. Drogulus made that point several months ago, and I think he's right to think so.

This argument is against your own claims. If public option led to single payer then why not make it single payer in the first place?

[JBS]

Even if it made it worse, at least everyone would be covered. That's something, isn't it? Or are you an asshole who is fine with denying care for millions just to keep quality care for youself? What are your values man?

The point is that single-payer is merely one way of getting everyone covered. There are a number of countries which manage that without resorting to single payer.

This argument is against your own claims. If public option led to single payer then why not make it single payer in the first place?

The first obvious reason is a gradual process will mean the inevitable problems of single payer can be addressed and solved rationally, which a sudden forcible implementation will not allow.

The second obvious reason is that for the 30 million who actually can't get private insurance, some sort of government  insurance, provided directly or indirectly,  is the only real solution.

What it boils down to is this
Single payer means everyone is covered , but the quality of health care goes down for almost everyone.
Public option means everyone is covered, but there's no impact on the quality of health care.

[Herman]

Am I the only one who finds it a little silly that the most partisan mass-poster on these US politics topics has probably never even been in the US as a tourist, let alone a citizen?

As a EU denizen (who has lived in the US long time ago) I am fully aware that if Trump or any other US prez decides to blow up the planet the rest of the world will feel some itch, too.

However, the US elections are a matter of US voters and there is plenty going on in various other parts of the world to het exercized about, it's just (giggle alert coming!) that the corporate media don't spend as much time on the political problems in Ukraine (only in sofar US pols are involved), Hungary, Britain, France, Spain, the entire world is engulfed in shit, but people are only watching the friggin' US.

It's rather weird, too, that our correspondent from Finland told us some months ago that he should not get involved in topics about US politics because it upset him too much and here we are....

[71 dB]

Nina Turner Blasts DNC Over "Intentional" #IowaCaucus Sabotage

https://www.youtube.com/v/7ewJJXbhC7o

[Karl Henning]

Very silly, indeed, Herman.