Author Topic: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020  (Read 325185 times)

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2520 on: February 15, 2020, 04:01:42 PM »
And even if someone wanted to argue this or that about the Ukraine business the obstruction of justice charge is (or ought to have been) undeniable.

Offline greg

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2521 on: February 15, 2020, 04:27:17 PM »
You can argue why an opinion is wrong, but your supposed bullshit detector directed at ANYONE who reaches a firm conclusion is... well it's bullshit.
It's the tribalistic thinking that I'm talking about (groupthink), which leads to much over-confidence.

People will ignore the downsides about what they assert about their conclusions, or the implications of their ideas in action. I see the contradictory nature of this in even very popular political issues.

And also the pressure to fit into a box, which I get the sense of very much from this thread (ex. the assumption that I "must be a Trump supporter" even though I don't vote). It even happened back in the Obama days when I would tell people (mostly IRL discussions) that the accusations against him are silly.

The fact that I wish to detach from all the tribes will ultimately mean everyone will hate me, which is fine, I guess. I only like to look at things as objectively as possible. If I don't know enough about something, I won't have an opinion.

Which is also consistent about my idea of people should only be allowed to vote after a political knowledge test and an IQ test (since IQ is pattern-related, it can help in understanding effects of actions/what patterns can result after a choice). But that's another topic entirely, just an idea I've had.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2522 on: February 15, 2020, 08:09:23 PM »
Bill de Blasio to endorse Bernie Sanders.  0:)

Meh.  De Blasio is a progressive, so of course he'll endorse the leading progressive candidate. There's also the fact that the current mayor of NYC is not friends with the former mayor of NYC.

If someone from the Clinton/Biden wing of the party endorsed Sanders, that would be noteworthy. This isn't.

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2523 on: February 15, 2020, 08:57:28 PM »
It's the tribalistic thinking that I'm talking about (groupthink), which leads to much over-confidence.

People will ignore the downsides about what they assert about their conclusions, or the implications of their ideas in action. I see the contradictory nature of this in even very popular political issues.

And also the pressure to fit into a box, which I get the sense of very much from this thread (ex. the assumption that I "must be a Trump supporter" even though I don't vote). It even happened back in the Obama days when I would tell people (mostly IRL discussions) that the accusations against him are silly.

The fact that I wish to detach from all the tribes will ultimately mean everyone will hate me, which is fine, I guess. I only like to look at things as objectively as possible. If I don't know enough about something, I won't have an opinion.

Which is also consistent about my idea of people should only be allowed to vote after a political knowledge test and an IQ test (since IQ is pattern-related, it can help in understanding effects of actions/what patterns can result after a choice). But that's another topic entirely, just an idea I've had.

Again just like 71db: "my views are an objective assessment of the facts - your views are mere groupthink"

Again I think its explained by how you get your "news".

Offline Madiel

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2524 on: February 16, 2020, 01:25:06 AM »
It's the tribalistic thinking that I'm talking about (groupthink), which leads to much over-confidence.

And exactly what has that got to do with me and what I was saying, when you brought up this overconfidence thing?

Various other things you're talking about also have nothing to do with me or what I've personally said. I recognise them as being related to what others have said in this thread, but it was me you were replying to when you decided to talk about having a problem with people having opinions.

Do you actually know who my preferred Democratic candidate is, given the topic of this thread? If you do, then please tell me because I sure don't know yet.

I'm not tribal. I'm not anti-Republican. I have an extremely low view of Trump, specifically, because of how he's actually behaved. The Republicans had candidates in 2016 that they could have picked and we simply wouldn't be having this conversation. Because those candidates were somewhere within the bounds of sanity and competency. But no. The reality TV star won. The businessman who only 'succeeds' by constantly threatening lawsuits and by using his inherited funds when others successfully sue him, that's the guy who won.

Again, you seem to believe that "balance" requires never reaching any kind of conclusion about anyone or anything. When lots and lots of people reach the same conclusion that in and of itself is not evidence of groupthink, or tribalism. It can actually be because they all obtained evidence.

Trump has been President for 3 years and tweets out evidence about the kind of person he is at an astonishing rate. Whatever you think of him, he's provided more directly personal material to form a judgement on than just about any other political figure. I don't think what I think about Trump because of 'groupthink' or someone else telling me what to think. I think it because for 3-4 years the man has been constantly in the public eye, on a near daily basis. He's been in the public eye in some form for DECADES. But hey, let's not be too hasty to form a judgement about him, that might look like 'groupthink' if too many of us simultaneously look at him and think WTF.

« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 01:29:04 AM by Madiel »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2525 on: February 16, 2020, 07:31:13 AM »
I'm not tribal. I'm not anti-Republican. I have an extremely low view of Trump, specifically, because of how he's actually behaved. The Republicans had candidates in 2016 that they could have picked and we simply wouldn't be having this conversation. Because those candidates were somewhere within the bounds of sanity and competency. But no. The reality TV star won. The businessman who only 'succeeds' by constantly threatening lawsuits and by using his inherited funds when others successfully sue him, that's the guy who won.

The US has entered the era on political populism meaning populists do best in elections everything else being equal. The Republicans didn't have real populist candidates, but they had one fake populist and that fake populist is curretly in the White House.
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Offline greg

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2526 on: February 17, 2020, 12:03:16 PM »
Again just like 71db: "my views are an objective assessment of the facts - your views are mere groupthink"

Again I think its explained by how you get your "news".
I don't know why you are so concerned about how I get my news. And not sure why that would be a just me problem when news media generally isn't very good or unbiased.

His opinions are probably a bit more authentic than most people's, though at the same time I don't think he's acknowledging the downsides... which is why I don't understand fanaticism of any politicians.


Also... As far as voting goes i would rather vote against rather than for... If that were the system i would probably vote.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 12:06:50 PM by greg »
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2527 on: February 17, 2020, 12:57:33 PM »
Bernie's GOT to win! Why don't you see it?!
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Offline milk

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2528 on: February 18, 2020, 07:01:29 AM »
Biden: no way please for this guy who’s been in politics way too long and is tied to too many policies, votes, gaffes, etc.
Buttigieg: honestly, I still haven’t focused on him. But, on paper, he seems like a real lightweight. Plus, what’s the movement he leads? Is he even electable in his own state? Maybe he’s smart. Anything else?
Warren: I actually find her likable and a very good politician in the sense of projecting good intentions and spirit. She’s just made really big blunders here and there. It makes me wonder. And was tying herself to Medicare-for-all a big mistake? Being bashed so much makes her seem weak but I still find her the most likable. Again, she’s messed up a lot too, sadly.
Klobuchar: I find her to be unlikable and somewhat disingenuous. Her attempts at humor are painful. Prosecutors seem to be the most blatant professional liars. What does she stand for? I don’t even care much. I just don’t like her.
Sanders: single payer, free education, tax the rich. I like it. Why can’t America be a little more like Germany or Finland? America/the world is out of hand with 4 or 5 rich guys owning half the wealth on planet earth and paying little in tax. Can he win? He makes me nervous. He’s old too. Like, very old. Who’d be his running mate? Gabbard? I’m not freak’n voting for Tulsey Gabbard. Anyway, Sanders is one of the most honest politicians in politics but still, can he win? I’d like to think so but lots of the media will say no.
Bloomberg? PPleaze!

Offline André

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2529 on: February 18, 2020, 07:41:54 AM »
Sanders’ choice of running mate will be of major importance. Given his advanced age and health record, his veep would have good chances of ending up prez in a Sanders first term. And of course you can forget about a second term.

All the focus is on the candidate, not his running mate. That’s a ticket for big time uncertainty. Just for that reason my brother and his wife won’t be voting for him in the NC primaries.

Offline greg

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2530 on: February 18, 2020, 08:22:12 AM »
Bernie's GOT to win! Why don't you see it?!
He can't win against a single college girl protester so not sure he can win against his rivals.

 ;D :P
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2531 on: February 18, 2020, 08:44:37 AM »
Biden: no way please for this guy who’s been in politics way too long and is tied to too many policies, votes, gaffes, etc.
Buttigieg: honestly, I still haven’t focused on him. But, on paper, he seems like a real lightweight. Plus, what’s the movement he leads? Is he even electable in his own state? Maybe he’s smart. Anything else?
Warren: I actually find her likable and a very good politician in the sense of projecting good intentions and spirit. She’s just made really big blunders here and there. It makes me wonder. And was tying herself to Medicare-for-all a big mistake? Being bashed so much makes her seem weak but I still find her the most likable. Again, she’s messed up a lot too, sadly.
Klobuchar: I find her to be unlikable and somewhat disingenuous. Her attempts at humor are painful. Prosecutors seem to be the most blatant professional liars. What does she stand for? I don’t even care much. I just don’t like her.
Sanders: single payer, free education, tax the rich. I like it. Why can’t America be a little more like Germany or Finland? America/the world is out of hand with 4 or 5 rich guys owning half the wealth on planet earth and paying little in tax. Can he win? He makes me nervous. He’s old too. Like, very old. Who’d be his running mate? Gabbard? I’m not freak’n voting for Tulsey Gabbard. Anyway, Sanders is one of the most honest politicians in politics but still, can he win? I’d like to think so but lots of the media will say no.
Bloomberg? PPleaze!


I feel ya.
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2532 on: February 18, 2020, 01:32:54 PM »
Bloomberg Is Now Buying Off State Democratic Parties

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/BJm-0f031qA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/BJm-0f031qA</a>
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2534 on: February 19, 2020, 07:22:24 AM »
Iowa recanvassing results at the moment:

Pete Buttigieg - 563.207 S.D.E.s => 14 pledged delegates
Bernie Sanders - 563.127 S.D.E.s => 12 pledged delegates

This will cheer Poju, anyway:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-surges-into-national-lead-in-new-post-abc-poll/2020/02/19/868266a4-5280-11ea-929a-64efa7482a77_story.html

No use to give me these paywall links, because I am not accepting their "free" entry bs. Bernie has led the national poll for some time now. Apparently even corporate media has to admit it by now as Bloomberg seems their only hope (let's see how badly Bloomberg tanks after his first debate where he can't control the narrative 100 % with his millions).

If you think they wrote something substantive you can always quote it here, thanks!


« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 07:24:00 AM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
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Offline k a rl h e nn i ng

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2535 on: February 19, 2020, 09:28:29 AM »
Iowa recanvassing results at the moment:

Pete Buttigieg - 563.207 S.D.E.s => 14 pledged delegates
Bernie Sanders - 563.127 S.D.E.s => 12 pledged delegates

No use to give me these paywall links, because I am not accepting their "free" entry bs. Bernie has led the national poll for some time now. Apparently even corporate media has to admit it by now as Bloomberg seems their only hope (let's see how badly Bloomberg tanks after his first debate where he can't control the narrative 100 % with his millions).

If you think they wrote something substantive you can always quote it here, thanks!




That's your trip, you know I ain't wet-nursing you.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2536 on: February 19, 2020, 10:32:40 AM »
That's your trip, you know I ain't wet-nursing you.

You are the one who tried to cheer me with your link..  ::)
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2537 on: February 19, 2020, 10:48:18 AM »
The incognito tab on your browser is your friend....

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2538 on: February 19, 2020, 11:14:31 AM »
The incognito tab on your browser is your friend....

Thanks for the hint, but when I tried that, I got this message:

We noticed you're browsing in private mode.
Private browsing is permitted exclusively for our subscribers. Turn off private browsing to keep reading this story, or subscribe to use this feature, plus get unlimited digital access.


 :P
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW track "Ecclesiastical Secularism"

Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #2539 on: February 19, 2020, 11:22:10 AM »
Thanks for the hint, but when I tried that, I got this message:

We noticed you're browsing in private mode.
Private browsing is permitted exclusively for our subscribers. Turn off private browsing to keep reading this story, or subscribe to use this feature, plus get unlimited digital access.


 :P

Try a different browser. I get the link, not that message, with Google Chrome.
Come to think of it, check to make sure your browser is updated. The Post, NY Times, and others, implemented a thing to stop private/incognito browsing a few months ago. After a couple of weeks, Google updated Chrome to neutralize that effort.

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