And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[amw]

Now you've got me wondering if that's me.

Nope. Actually the majority of them are probably not active here anymore—Sean was one, Josquin des Prez another, I can't remember if Michael Rozenzweig (sp?) was here or on another forum....

Generally you've got to make a consistent and long-term effort to be rude and disagreeable to everyone, offer as many bigoted and inflammatory statements as possible, and also have very little to say about music, in which case I will concede that yes, your human being skills need work.

[Madiel]

BTW, is my understanding of Australia's gun laws correct? [In the comment time stamped at 2:20]

I don't know, because there's too much detail in what you say and I would have to check the laws of 8 different states and territories to be sure. We're a federal country too, you know.

Of course we have a right to self-defence. We just don't believe that that means having a gun, and as I'm sure I've pointed out before the notion that having a gun improves your self-defence  runs contrary to the actual statistics on this. Congress passed laws preventing official statistics being collected precisely because they would tend to show that gun ownership is not helpful to self-defence. That's just how fucked up the gun lobby ownership of your politicians is.

EDIT: Besides, you don't have a "right to self-defence" in the sense you put forward, you have a "right to bear arms". And the whole process by which a long of line of authority that said this wasn't an individual right got overturned is also a lengthy discussion of how first the NRA and then other institutions got infiltrated. You want to bear arms? Join a proper, well-regulated militia.

[Florestan]

America is a great place to live if you are white and have money.

Every person of colour I know in the USA lives in constant fear of the police.

How about blacks who have money? There are lots of them in Hollywood, NBA and other sports, music & entertainment industry, academia, mass media; if I recall correctly, one of them was even elected POTUS twice.

How about Indians (Asian Indians, that is) who have money? There are lots of them in IT, academia and medical professions.

Maybe you should go tell them all that the police is after them, that they live in a country specifically designed to keep them down and out and that they should find another one more open and fair to them.

Actually, how about yourself? You live in the USA, which is not even your native country, and apparently have no intention of leaving. Shall we presume you have enough money to live well?

I don't see the point of addressing the idea of a "shameless cult of personality" given that the capital of the USA is literally named Washington and the faces of several US presidents are carved into a mountain. Only the Soviet Union can really compare, and they at least would delete various past leaders from the cult of personality when tastes changed, whereas in the USA the "Founders" are still revered to an absurd degree. (if I were more religious, I might say blasphemous.) 

When was the last time all US newspapers and TV stations reported only about the most beloved son of the nation, the genius of the Carpathians Appalachians and his tremendous dedication to the welfare and happiness of the people? When was the last time a POTUS gave "priceless pieces of advice" to managers and professionals of industry, agriculture, education, healthcare, culture, mass-media, sports and whatnot? When was the last time a POTUS gave a 6-hour long speech in front of a two-thousand-party-member audience which interrupted him every 10 minutes with standing ovations, thunderous applause and shouting slogans like "Our esteem and our pride, [insert name] and USA?" When was the last time a FLOTUS who couldn't even read and write properly was acclaimed as a worldwide renowned scientist and made president of the US Academy of Science? When was the last time all US mass media praised the same FLOTUS in terms like "brave comrade of her husband", "heroic mother", "woman among women" etc? When was the last time that 8 years in the USA history were named after the then POTUS as "the [insert name] era" (in Romania there were actually 25 years)? When was the last time a POTUS allegedly receive millions of letters from the people urging him to run again and pledging their vote to him? When was the last time a POTUS was credited with being the author or inspirator of everything great, good, beauty and true in the country? When was the last time when etc.

Because that has been happening in Romania for 25 years, 24/24, 7/7. Compared to this, Mount Rushmore and the reverence for the Founding Fathers are a trifle.

I also note that polling in Romania has pretty consistently shown that, despite all the downsides of living in essentially a USSR puppet state with enforced austerity, a plurality of respondents think their lives were better under socialism. (See https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/can-europe-make-it/communist-nostalgia-in-romania/—a capitalist propaganda source—or https://www.liberationnews.org/romania-30-years/—a socialist propaganda source—take your pick)

That's true but only among people aged 60 and higher, located mostly in rural or small town areas. And if you ask me, this "communist" nostalgia is less about communism per se and more about their youth. It's their being young, healthy and active they're nostalgic about. In every regime people try to live their lives as best they can and be happy. And in the 10 years between 1965 and 1975 if you just kept your mouth shut and did your job life was nowhere nearly as bad as it would increasingly become starting in 1975 (when Ceausescu visited China and North Korea and came back with the same demented ideas he encountered there) with the absolute worst after 1985.

EDIT: Btw, the socialist propaganda article is full-packed with factual errors starting from the first paragraph and looks as if taken straight from "The Spark", the official newspaper of the Romanian Communist Party.

[Madiel]

How about blacks who have money? There are lots of them in Hollywood, NBA and other sports, music & entertainment industry, academia, mass media; if I recall correctly, one of them was even elected POTUS twice.

Very rich blacks still experience the joys of being pulled over by police for 'driving while black' and so forth. Not least because the police are inherently suspicious of a black person in a NICE car. Maybe they stole it.

[Florestan]

Very rich blacks still experience the joys of being pulled over by police for 'driving while black' and so forth. Not least because the police are inherently suspicious of a black person in a NICE car. Maybe they stole it.

I'm very curious if this really happened to, say, Morgan Freeman, Michael Jordan, Beyonce or Barack Obama while he was a professor of law.

[Madiel]

I'm very curious if this really happened to, say, Morgan Freeman, Michael Jordan, Beyonce or Barack Obama while he was a professor of law.

There are documented cases, yes.

[Florestan]

All this talk about the alleged equivalence of life in the USA with life in the former communist regimes reminded me of a joke.

An American and a Russian meet in a pub. [There are literally hundreds of jokes that start this way] After some drinking, the American says to the Russian:

- You know, USA is a free country. For instance, if I go right in the front of the White House and shout "Down with Nixon!" nothing's going to happen to me.

The Russian thinks for some time and then replies:

- You know, USSR is exactly the same. If I go right in the front of the Kremlin and shout "Down with Nixon!" nothing's going to happen to me either.

[Madiel]

For the curious:

Being a US Senator doesn't insulate you: https://money.cnn.com/2016/07/14/news/economy/wealthy-blacks-racial-profiling/index.html

Being the richest black man in America doesn't insulate you: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/the-stop-race-police-traffic/

[Florestan]

There are documented cases, yes.

For the curious:

Being a US Senator doesn't insulate you: https://money.cnn.com/2016/07/14/news/economy/wealthy-blacks-racial-profiling/index.html

Being the richest black man in America doesn't insulate you: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/the-stop-race-police-traffic/

As I said before, the racist past of the USA still haunts their present.

[71 dB]

I'm not so interested of the type of discussion we have been witnessing here. Debating with US sanctions denialists is not much different from debating with climate change denialists or flat earthers. The fact that people need to "attack" Bernie saying his housing policies aren't Danish enough tells a lot about how good candidate Bernie is. You can't attack Bernie talking about Stop and Frisk. You can't attack Bernie on Busing. You can't attack Bernie on wine caves/billionaire donors. So what do you do? Bernie's housing policy isn't build of Lego blocks!!! 

Good luck establishment stopping Bernie. If he wins* South-Carolina it's OVER. The oligarchy had a good run of about 45 years, but everything come to an end eventually. Obama was the first try to end oligarchy, but Obama turned out a corrupt centrist. Trump was the second try, but Trump turned out a pathological liar. Benie is the real deal. Americans are finally getting it right!

* Biden seems to win according to the polls, but you never know...

[Florestan]

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10715.pdf

If you had read yoiur own link you'd have learned that 99% of those sanctions apply to specific individuals and have nothing to do with the Venezuelan economy as a whole.

[JBS]

I'm not so interested of the type of discussion we have been witnessing here. Debating with US sanctions denialists is not much different from debating with climate change denialists or flat earthers. The fact that people need to "attack" Bernie saying his housing policies aren't Danish enough tells a lot about how good candidate Bernie is. You can't attack Bernie talking about Stop and Frisk. You can't attack Bernie on Busing. You can't attack Bernie on wine caves/billionaire donors. So what do you do? Bernie's housing policy isn't build of Lego blocks!!! 

Good luck establishment stopping Bernie. If he wins* South-Carolina it's OVER. The oligarchy had a good run of about 45 years, but everything come to an end eventually. Obama was the first try to end oligarchy, but Obama turned out a corrupt centrist. Trump was the second try, but Trump turned out a pathological liar. Benie is the real deal. Americans are finally getting it right!

* Biden seems to win according to the polls, but you never know...

If you had actually read my comment, you would have observed that I said Denmark's housing policies seem very much like what we have now in the US, and that Bernie's proposal goes much further in terms of federal control of housing. So Denmark is not his model.

And if sanctions are the true cause of Venezuela's problems, why haven't they tanked the economies of Iran and Cuba...especially since the sanctions on those countries are greater and have been in effect for longer (decades, in the case of Cuba).

[71 dB]

If you had actually read my comment, you would have observed that I said Denmark's housing policies seem very much like what we have now in the US, and that Bernie's proposal goes much further in terms of federal control of housing. So Denmark is not his model.

The idea is not to make the US identical to Denmark. Nobody has said Denmark has the BEST models on everything from healthcare to housing. Good perhaps? Great perhaps? Maybe Denmark's housing policy isn't that great? I don't know. Denmark is just one example of a social democratic country which even with it's problems does many things better than the US.

And if sanctions are the true cause of Venezuela's problems, why haven't they tanked the economies of Iran and Cuba...especially since the sanctions on those countries are greater and have been in effect for longer (decades, in the case of Cuba).

I never said they are. I said the sanctions make things worse and without them Venezuela would be doing better. That's the point of sanctions. What is the point of sanction which don't create pressure? The US wants cheap oil and use the sanctions for that goal.

[71 dB]

If you had read yoiur own link you'd have learned that 99% of those sanctions apply to specific individuals and have nothing to do with the Venezuelan economy as a whole.

Those are key individuals. Applying pressure on them is effective in respect of the whole economy of Venezuela. that's why they are targeted.

[Florestan]

Those are key individuals. Applying pressure on them is effective in respect of the whole economy of Venezuela. that's why they are targeted.

I'm sure you can explain us how denying entry in the US for, and freezing the bank accounts of, a dozen key people of the Venezuelan regime impacted the country's economy in such a dramatic manner.

[Ratliff]

What got Venezuela was the collapse of the price of oil. Their economy depends heavily on oil and they borrowed a lot of money against that revenue stream. When the price collapsed they lost a huge amount of revenue and their loans went into default. Now they are not able to produce oil because of a combination of sanctions and inability to pay for production. No, U.S. sanctions didn't cause their problems but it is making it a lot harder for them to solve the problem.

[greg]

Very rich blacks still experience the joys of being pulled over by police for 'driving while black' and so forth. Not least because the police are inherently suspicious of a black person in a NICE car. Maybe they stole it.

The getting pulled over reasons is too much based on assumptions. It could be the reason sometimes, other times not so much.

Either way, it's also a good way of showing how the real privelege is money over everything else. The way they will be treated will be way different if they are a celebrity vs. an average person.

I still kinda feel like the discussion after the Wall Street protests were intentionally changed to other areas of "privilege" to take the focus off rich people, because of course they don't want to be portrayed as the bad guys by the media. Let's not talk about money, let's talk about race, gender, etc. 

[71 dB]

What got Venezuela was the collapse of the price of oil. Their economy depends heavily on oil and they borrowed a lot of money against that revenue stream. When the price collapsed they lost a huge amount of revenue and their loans went into default. Now they are not able to produce oil because of a combination of sanctions and inability to pay for production. No, U.S. sanctions didn't cause their problems but it is making it a lot harder for them to solve the problem.

Exactly! Your post is on point. 

[Ratliff]

Exactly! Your post is on point. 

You could say that they did the same thing as Norway, using oil revenues to support social programs, but Norway put the oil revenue in a trust fund that they draw on. They didn't go deep into debt, as Venezuela did. In Venezuela they exposed themselves to great risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway

[André]

You could say that they did the same thing as Norway, using oil revenues to support social programs, but Norway put the oil revenue in a trust fund that they draw on. They didn't go deep into debt, as Venezuela did. In Venezuela they exposed themselves to great risk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Pension_Fund_of_Norway

The exact same thing is happening in the canadian province of Alberta. For decades oil revenue was used to keep Albertans' taxes very low, much lower than in the rest of Canada, creating an artificially high disposable income. Human greed being what it is, the higher income was used to buy expensive SUVs, houses etc. And since big is not big enough, they used leveraging. Provincial and personal debts have soared as a consequence. As the price of oil dropped, the province dipped into its Heritage Fund to continue providing services. Now the Heritage Fund is dried up and the only way out would be to increase taxes substantially, which would worsen the capacity to make debt payments. The provincial government is crying bloody murder and blaming everybody except themselves.