And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[Florestan]

I bolded the part that displays the elitism that is inherent in your progressivism. You think you know better than us. You think that any alternate view is the result of ignorance. Your problem with the 1% percent is that it does not consist of the people you like.  My problem with the 1% is that it exists in the first.

Agreed 150%

[71 dB]

I bolded the part that displays the elitism that is inherent in your progressivism. You think you know better than us. You think that any alternate view is the result of ignorance. Your problem with the 1% percent is that it does not consist of the people you like.  My problem with the 1% is that it exists in the first.

This is not about "liking" the top 1 %. Annual pretax income needed to be in the top 1 % in the US is about $500.000. The problems is power. These people have insane amount of power in the society and they are also living in their bubbles not understanding the problems of regular people. For them it's impossible to understand millions and millions of hard working Americans struggle to put food on the table and to pay electrical bills.

Yes, I may appear elitistic, but I say it like it is. Regular people don't have much time in their life to follow politics and study things themselves. Make a convincing case of alternative views! For example if you think Biden is stronger than Bernie in the rust belt make your case why. If you think rust belt is not important make your case why.

Of course the top 1 % exists because 99 % can't make up 100 % of population, but in reasonable society the top 1 % doesn't alone dictate the politics. They pay their fair sharing acknowledging that not only hard work but also some luck has been needed to take them where they are and out of solidarity they can pay back to the society making it better for everyone. It makes a safer society with less crime. Everybody benefits from that. Societies aren't zero sum games. Smart policies make it so that everybody wins.

[Karl Henning]

He was unwittingly quoting Lenin.

Well, you know, "Lenin said some good things" . . .

[71 dB]

Well, you know, "Lenin said some good things" . . .

I suppose everything Lenin said was good. It was what he DID that was bad... 

[Florestan]

I suppose everything Lenin said was good.

You're wrong.

[drogulus]

Bernie identifies himself as a "democratic socialist" not as a "social -democrat". Do you, or rather does Kyle Kulinski, have any rational and reasonable explanation for this discrepancy?

     It has to do with something about the American tradition. Sanders advocates social democratic programs, but his personal history says he joined radical socialist splinter groups. My puritanical approach is to deem someone a socialist because they want the government to own major industry, because that's what I learned. I don't know what's wrong with these American socialists. Don't they have any values?

     

     

[Florestan]

     It has to do with something about the American tradition. Sanders advocates social democratic programs, but his personal history says he joined radical socialist splinter groups. My puritanical approach is to deem someone a socialist because they want the government to own major industry, because that's what I learned. I don't know what's wrong with these American socialists. Don't they have any values?   

Imnsho, the best definition of socialism was given by the (national) socialist Hitler: "We don't nationalize industries, we nationalize souls".

[JBS]

This is not about "liking" the top 1 %. Annual pretax income needed to be in the top 1 % in the US is about $500.000. The problems is power. These people have insane amount of power in the society and they are also living in their bubbles not understanding the problems of regular people. For them it's impossible to understand millions and millions of hard working Americans struggle to put food on the table and to pay electrical bills.

Yes, I may appear elitistic, but I say it like it is. Regular people don't have much time in their life to follow politics and study things themselves. Make a convincing case of alternative views! For example if you think Biden is stronger than Bernie in the rust belt make your case why. If you think rust belt is not important make your case why.

Of course the top 1 % exists because 99 % can't make up 100 % of population, but in reasonable society the top 1 % doesn't alone dictate the politics. They pay their fair sharing acknowledging that not only hard work but also some luck has been needed to take them where they are and out of solidarity they can pay back to the society making it better for everyone. It makes a safer society with less crime. Everybody benefits from that. Societies aren't zero sum games. Smart policies make it so that everybody wins.

You don't understand the problem. It's not about having money. It's about bossing people around.  Bernie and the Young Turks want to boss me around. More precisely, they want armies of bureaucrats bossing me around.
I object to being bossed around by anyone. Biden will boss me around less than Bernie, therefore he is objectively better than Bernie.

[Florestan]

I object to being bossed around by anyone.

Honestly, so do I in the abstract. Unfortunately, we live in reality not in abstraction: being bossed around is unavoidable. It's the degree of bossing around which makes the difference between a relatively free society and a full-fledged tyranny.

Biden will boss me around less than Bernie, therefore he is objectively better than Bernie.

This.

[André]

You don't understand the problem. It's not about having money. It's about bossing people around.  Bernie and the Young Turks want to boss me around. More precisely, they want armies of bureaucrats bossing me around.
I object to being bossed around by anyone. Biden will boss me around less than Bernie, therefore he is objectively better than Bernie.

That's true of most Americans, I believe. They will not be bossed around or lectured. It's a trait that is alien to some people (from another culture), so they have trouble understanding that.

[Florestan]

That's true of most Americans, I believe. They will not be bossed around or lectured. It's a trait that is alien to some people (from another culture), so they have trouble understanding that.

I don't know. Do you wholeheartedly accept being bossed around or lectured?

[drogulus]

Imnsho, the best definition of socialism was given by the (national) socialist Hitler: "We don't nationalize industries, we nationalize souls".

     Hitler purged the left wing Nazis in 1934 along with other factions. The German socialist party (SPD) was banned a year earlier. I think your definition of socialism is of polemical value to you but would be misleading to someone trying to learn about the subject.

[Florestan]

     Hitler purged the left wing Nazis in 1934 along with other factions. The German socialist party (SPD) was banned a year earlier. I think your definition of socialism is of polemical value to you but would be misleading to someone trying to learn about the subject.

Oh yes, big and unexpected news: various branches of socialism each claiming to be the true one and each fighting to death all other ones deemed as deviationists and traitors. Stalin did it on a regular basis. And if I may ask you, what party mercilessly crushed the socialist 1919 uprising in Germany?

[71 dB]

You don't understand the problem. It's not about having money. It's about bossing people around.  Bernie and the Young Turks want to boss me around. More precisely, they want armies of bureaucrats bossing me around.
I object to being bossed around by anyone. Biden will boss me around less than Bernie, therefore he is objectively better than Bernie.

Fire department is a "socialistic" tax funded program. Bureaucrats are behind it, right? Now, tell me how these bureaucrats boss you around when your house is on fire, you call the fire department and the come and  put the flames out? Your fears of being bossed around are irrational. Bernie and the Young Turks DON*T WANT TO BOSS YOU AROUND!! They have better things to do.

[71 dB]

Imnsho, the best definition of socialism was given by the (national) socialist Hitler: "We don't nationalize industries, we nationalize souls".

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be democratic since it has the word democratic in the name... 

[Florestan]

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be democratic since it has the word democratic in the name... 

Bernie must be democratic since he has the word democratic in the name... 

[71 dB]

This is important so please watch. Do people want to risk 4 more years of Trump just because they disagree ideologically with Bernie?

Joe Biden Is Incoherent

https://www.youtube.com/v/2WwFDktA3Cc

Bernie must be democratic since he has the word democratic in the name... 

Bernie and everybody else is defined by what he says and does.

[drogulus]

Oh yes, big and unexpected news: various branches of socialism each claiming to be the true one and each fighting to death all other ones deemed as deviationists and traitors. Stalin did it on a regular basis. And if I may ask you, what party mercilessly crushed the socialist 1919 uprising in Germany?

      So they all claimed to serve the One True Thing. I'm getting your drift now. Not only did they fight each other, none of them had the right Bog, so it was all in vain. Now, back to earth.

      The authoritarians and totalitarians get rid of the liberal and democratic elements. Hitler went after the conservatives, too. Of course Stalin crushed any faction or party with democratic leanings. Of course Hitler did.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea must be democratic since it has the word democratic in the name... 

     It's not all the way down to that but it's close.

[drogulus]

Bernie must be democratic since he has the word democratic in the name... 

     You don't have to be a Bernie-head to understand that he is well within the democratic tradition.

[SimonNZ]

Imnsho, the best definition of socialism was given by the (national) socialist Hitler: "We don't nationalize industries, we nationalize souls".

Absolutely any book on the third reich will tell you why it was useful to them to give lip service to socialist rhetoric as they were growing without themselves being socialists.

But you must know this, surely.