Author Topic: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020  (Read 275811 times)

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #540 on: September 23, 2019, 04:30:59 PM »
People in New Zealand have the pony (single payer healthcare). Americans don't have it. 42 % of Americans who get cancer lose everything they own within 2 years. Does that happen in NZ?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 04:34:39 PM by 71 dB »
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #541 on: September 23, 2019, 04:33:13 PM »
The only important question is, which one has a better chance of beating Trump. Policy comes in only because the more progressive/leftist a candidate is, the less chance that candidate has of beating Trump.

They won't do it by attracting disillusioned Trump voters, because there no disillusioned Trump voters.

They can do it by being attractive to Republicans who don't like Trump. They can do it by making Republicans feel that disaster won't happen if the Democrat is elected because he/she is not too far to the left.

Unfortunately for Kyle, Bernie can't do that.  Neither can Warren, nor most of the other candidates because they are too far to the left.

Biden can, Yang can, Buttigieg can.   Yang has the additional eclat of being potentially the first Asian POTUS and the first POTUS with no European DNA (Obama after all is biracial). Buttigieg has the eclat of being potentially the first openly gay POTUS. (Although the POTUS who was probably the first actual gay is not a good precedent: Buchanan, who until 2016 was almost universally considered the worst POTUS in history.)  Also Yang and Buttigieg are young, not tired out and with lots of tired baggage like Biden.

So if you want Trump defeated, start advocating for one of them. Like I said before, anyone you (meaning 71db) like on policy grounds will definitely lose to Trump.

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #542 on: September 23, 2019, 04:39:05 PM »
Unfortunately for Kyle, Bernie can't do that.  Neither can Warren, nor most of the other candidates because they are too far to the left.

You just don't believe leftist ideas ARE popular in the US. Bernie wins Trump easily if he gets the nomination
If you were right, Hillary would be in the white house. Americans are sick of centrists. That's why Dems lost over 1000 seats under Obama and the next POTUS was Trump who campaigned economically more LEFT than Hillary (but as we know lied and is in reality a status quo president serving the top 1 %, donors).
How dfficult is this to understand?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 04:44:29 PM by 71 dB »
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #543 on: September 23, 2019, 04:49:09 PM »
Biden can, Yang can, Buttigieg can.   Yang has the additional eclat of being potentially the first Asian POTUS and the first POTUS with no European DNA (Obama after all is biracial). Buttigieg has the eclat of being potentially the first openly gay POTUS. (Although the POTUS who was probably the first actual gay is not a good precedent: Buchanan, who until 2016 was almost universally considered the worst POTUS in history.)  Also Yang and Buttigieg are young, not tired out and with lots of tired baggage like Biden.


Oh my! This is identity politics to you! If you haven't noticed, Buttigieg and Yang poll significantly lower than Bernie and Warren. I am not interested if the potus is woman or gay or black or whatever. Politics is everything! Bad policy kills people. Good policy safes people. It's literally life and death!
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #544 on: September 23, 2019, 04:53:14 PM »
You just don't believe leftist ideas ARE popular in the US. Bernie wins Trump easily if he gets the nomination
If you were right, Hillary would be in the white house. Americans are sick of centrists. That's why Dems lost over 1000 seats under Obama.
How dfficult is this to understand?

You don't get it, do you?
Leftist ideas are not popular with actual voters, and the Electoral College magnifies that.
The Democrats lost 1000 seats because they moved too far to the left. Had they really remained centrist, that would not have happened.
Bernie wants to give bureaucrats the power to choose my doctor and my prescriptions for me (Medicare for All), and the power to tell me how much I can sell my house for and to whom (his housing proposal), and how much I can drive my car and when I can use my air conditioning (Green New Deal). With increased taxes and increased prices to go along with that.

That's not how we do things here in the US.

And then there is the social justice movement...

Trust me, millions of voters will cheerfully pick Trump over Sanders no matter how bad they think Trump is, and Trumpism will be permanently entrenched in American government.

Is that what you want?

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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #545 on: September 23, 2019, 04:58:02 PM »
Oh my! This is identity politics to you! If you haven't noticed, Buttigieg and Yang poll significantly lower than Bernie and Warren. I am not interested if the potus is woman or gay or black or whatever. Politics is everything! Bad policy kills people. Good policy safes people. It's literally life and death!

FYI, in that new Iowa poll,  Biden and Warren have about twice the number that Bernie has (11 percent for him). Buttigieg is not far behind Bernie, with 9 percent. Yang, it is true, is only at 3 percent. But unlike the rest of the rear tier, he has only positive reporting, nothing negative like Booker or Harris.

Being a European, you may underestimate the importance of identity politics. It got Obama elected. Millions of blacks voted for the first time because he was one of them, and they were proud of a black man getting to the White House. And millions of whites voted for him because he represented a repudiation of America's history of racism and it made them feel good to help in that repudiation.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2019, 05:02:15 PM by JBS »

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #546 on: September 23, 2019, 05:35:42 PM »
You don't get it, do you?
Leftist ideas are not popular with actual voters, and the Electoral College magnifies that.
The Democrats lost 1000 seats because they moved too far to the left. Had they really remained centrist, that would not have happened.
Bernie wants to give bureaucrats the power to choose my doctor and my prescriptions for me (Medicare for All), and the power to tell me how much I can sell my house for and to whom (his housing proposal), and how much I can drive my car and when I can use my air conditioning (Green New Deal). With increased taxes and increased prices to go along with that.

That's not how we do things here in the US.

And then there is the social justice movement...

Trust me, millions of voters will cheerfully pick Trump over Sanders no matter how bad they think Trump is, and Trumpism will be permanently entrenched in American government.

Is that what you want?

You don't know anything. Bernie broke his 2016 record (he beat Obamas record) of 1 million individual donations at this point this early. Those who donate him WILL VOTE!! They are actual voters! Stop belittleling THEM! Dems didn't move to left (well socially but not economically).

Again: medicare for all: your taxes go up but yout premiums and copays go to zero that why you safe money and bureaucrats are not telling you anything. You see the doctor you want.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #547 on: September 23, 2019, 05:50:54 PM »
FYI, in that new Iowa poll,  Biden and Warren have about twice the number that Bernie has (11 percent for him). Buttigieg is not far behind Bernie, with 9 percent. Yang, it is true, is only at 3 percent. But unlike the rest of the rear tier, he has only positive reporting, nothing negative like Booker or Harris.

Being a European, you may underestimate the importance of identity politics. It got Obama elected. Millions of blacks voted for the first time because he was one of them, and they were proud of a black man getting to the White House. And millions of whites voted for him because he represented a repudiation of America's history of racism and it made them feel good to help in that repudiation.

Corporate media tries to create narrative of Bernies momentum being over. Well, if it's over for Bernie it's over for Kamala and others too. You can cherry pick polls. In many polls Bernie does well.

People being ignorant and into identity politics is a problem. Thats why I fight for Bernie. Bernie can WIN, but it's a fight to get the nomination. Head to head with Trump polls Bernie beats Trump in all, no problem. A lot of people who voted Trump in 2016 WOULD have voted for Bernie!!
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #548 on: September 23, 2019, 05:55:04 PM »
People in New Zealand have the pony (single payer healthcare). Americans don't have it. 42 % of Americans who get cancer lose everything they own within 2 years. Does that happen in NZ?

That's not the pony I meant. Your Kyle thinks grandiose promises of free stuff alone makes Sanders obviously preferable to anyone not matching that rhetoric.

also: I don't think you have any understanding of the various pluses and minuses in the current state of healthcare in New Zealand.

Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #549 on: September 23, 2019, 06:03:02 PM »
JBS makes me angry. I don't know what to do. JBS can belittle lefties, but lefty politics works brilliantly in Nordic Countries and in other places. There is a good reason to advocate lefty politics. It WORKS! It doesn't mean full socialism. It's capitalism, only regulated to avoid brutal system. The people in US has been brainwashed to think full capitalism is the best but it is not. The US has SERIOUS problems that do not exist in other developped countries. The US CAN FIX those problems because it's the richest country in the World. It takes total change of the system to end the oligarchy and corruption. Money out of politics so that not only the top 1 % is served. Everybody is served! That's democracy. That's how you build a good society. JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. BS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. Angry. But I try. I try I try to calm down and control myself. Difficult!!! I try! JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. Some other people make me angry too. I am astonished how brainwashed by corporate media people here are. Astonishing! I though people would be smarter. Smarter classical fans! Smarter!!!! But no!! I read corporate media talking point all the time. Even Karl!! Amazing! JBS makes me angry.  I try to calm down. I don't know how to deal with this. Bernie needs to become the next president because  SERIOUS problems and he is THE man who brings the change! Amendment KING!! He wrote the damn Bill. he cares! But I am angry. Oh dear.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #550 on: September 23, 2019, 06:05:22 PM »
You don't know anything. Bernie broke his 2016 record (he beat Obamas record) of 1 million individual donations at this point this early. Those who donate him WILL VOTE!! They are actual voters! Stop belittleling THEM! Dems didn't move to left (well socially but not economically).

I am sure those million voters will vote. But lots of them live in blue states, so it doesn't matter, thanks to the Electoral College.

And Bernie has slain his thousands but Trump has slain his tens of thousands
Quote
The Trump PACs get 47 percent of their contributions from small donations.

With Trump PACs included, small donations given for Trump total $115,697,683 for the 2020 election cycle, and large donations total $117,457,166.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/small-dollar-donations-trump-gop
Obviously a biased source, but then Kulinski is just as biased.

You need to get out of your head the idea that the number of Bernie supporters is important. It's not.

The crucial thing is the number of Republicans who dislike Trump.

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #551 on: September 23, 2019, 06:09:34 PM »
That's not the pony I meant. Your Kyle thinks grandiose promises of free stuff alone makes Sanders obviously preferable to anyone not matching that rhetoric.

also: I don't think you have any understanding of the various pluses and minuses in the current state of healthcare in New Zealand.

There is no free staff. Someone pays everything. It a question of WHAT is the best way to pay for things.

I admit I don't know much about New Zealand, but I am sure people over there don't go bankrupt over medical bills. I also believe drugs are much cheaper, maybe even cheaper than in Canada? There is no question whether the US needs single payer healthcare. It's obvious.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #552 on: September 23, 2019, 06:13:54 PM »
JBS makes me angry. I don't know what to do. JBS can belittle lefties, but lefty politics works brilliantly in Nordic Countries and in other places. There is a good reason to advocate lefty politics. It WORKS! It doesn't mean full socialism. It's capitalism, only regulated to avoid brutal system. The people in US has been brainwashed to think full capitalism is the best but it is not. The US has SERIOUS problems that do not exist in other developped countries. The US CAN FIX those problems because it's the richest country in the World. It takes total change of the system to end the oligarchy and corruption. Money out of politics so that not only the top 1 % is served. Everybody is served! That's democracy. That's how you build a good society. JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. BS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. Angry. But I try. I try I try to calm down and control myself. Difficult!!! I try! JBS makes me angry. JBS makes me angry. Some other people make me angry too. I am astonished how brainwashed by corporate media people here are. Astonishing! I though people would be smarter. Smarter classical fans! Smarter!!!! But no!! I read corporate media talking point all the time. Even Karl!! Amazing! JBS makes me angry.  I try to calm down. I don't know how to deal with this. Bernie needs to become the next president because  SERIOUS problems and he is THE man who brings the change! Amendment KING!! He wrote the damn Bill. he cares! But I am angry. Oh dear.

Even if they work well in Nordic countries, they won't work here.

Medicare for all, for instance, will have a lot of the negative consequences you say it won't. Even now, under the current system, seniors can't always have the doctor they want. My primary criterion in picking an insurance plan is making sure it covers my doctor and prescriptions. Under Bernie's plan, I will just have to hope the government  includes them in the network.

You think America is run by an oligarchy? I assure you, Finland is too. That's how politics in the modern world.

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #553 on: September 23, 2019, 06:14:57 PM »
I am sure those million voters will vote. But lots of them live in blue states, so it doesn't matter, thanks to the Electoral College.

And Bernie has slain his thousands but Trump has slain his tens of thousandshttps://www.foxnews.com/politics/small-dollar-donations-trump-gop
Obviously a biased source, but then Kulinski is just as biased.

You need to get out of your head the idea that the number of Bernie supporters is important. It's not.

The crucial thing is the number of Republicans who dislike Trump.

Bernie has great support on the important rust belt. Even in Texas Bernie is beating Trump!

Everyone is biased. The difference is Kyle Kulinski tells everyone how he is biased and WHY. He can justify his left-wing biases (they kick ass empirically eg. Nordic countries). Corporate media doesn't admit any bias and they definitely can't justify it so they SMEAR and LIE.

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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #554 on: September 23, 2019, 06:16:32 PM »
Remember, 71db, a candidate can be great on policy, but if he/she can't beat Trump, it doesn't matter what their policies are.

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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #555 on: September 23, 2019, 06:17:16 PM »
Bernie has great support on the important rust belt. Even in Texas Bernie is beating Trump!

Everyone is biased. The difference is Kyle Kulinski tells everyone how he is biased and WHY. He can justify his left-wing biases (they kick ass empirically eg. Nordic countries). Corporate media doesn't admit any bias and they definitely can't justify it so they SMEAR and LIE.

People thought Beto could beat Cruz in Texas...

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #556 on: September 23, 2019, 06:34:18 PM »
Even if they work well in Nordic countries, they won't work here.

Do you even WANT them to work? You are opposing these ideas on ideological reasons.

Medicare for all, for instance, will have a lot of the negative consequences you say it won't. Even now, under the current system, seniors can't always have the doctor they want. My primary criterion in picking an insurance plan is making sure it covers my doctor and prescriptions. Under Bernie's plan, I will just have to hope the government  includes them in the network.

You think America is run by an oligarchy? I assure you, Finland is too. That's how politics in the modern world.

There is no NETWORKS in medicare for all. It's one system covering and including everything. You LOSE your private insurance, but you get a much better healthcare insurance in return. It covers EVERYTHING apart from things like plastic surgery. The US has the worst healthcare system of all developped countries. Medicare for all would improve it significantly, cover everyone and save money. The fact that you keep insisting against these facts tell how brainwashed you are. My reason to advocate medicare for all for US is because I want Americans to have to better country and better healthcare. What is your reason to oppose it? Ignorance? Brainwashing? What?

The US is an oligarchy functioally. Almost all legistlation is done to serve the rich. Finland is not an oligarchy. Sure, there's some minor corruption in Finnish politics, but not even close to making the system oligarchy. Finland is one of the least corrupted countries in the World. I can understand you know NOTHING about distant and small Finland, but the ignorance you demonstrate of the political system of you own country is astonishing. It's as if you have just watched corporate media and that's it. You just believe their bs. Amazing.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #557 on: September 23, 2019, 06:37:11 PM »
People thought Beto could beat Cruz in Texas...

Beto is not Bernie... (if you didn't know, Beto is a fake-progressive who takes big donor money.)
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #558 on: September 23, 2019, 06:45:03 PM »
Remember, 71db, a candidate can be great on policy, but if he/she can't beat Trump, it doesn't matter what their policies are.

Beating Trump is something we all agree about. Good. Now, Dems should nominate a candidate against Trump that has the best changes beating him. The poll tell us Biden and Bernie are the strongest against Trump, but if you understand politics you see Biden will come down. His Corn Pop stories aren't a match to Bernies and Warrens progressive message. What is Biden offering? Record players? He is a corporate candidate telling what can't be done instead of offering a vision for the country like Bernie and Warren do. The cold fact is that Bernie is the strongest against Trump and would beat him easily. Corporate media tries to maintain the opposite narrative. Don't be a fool who believes that. Believe the facts.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #559 on: September 23, 2019, 06:47:25 PM »
Do you even WANT them to work? You are opposing these ideas on ideological reasons.

There is no NETWORKS in medicare for all. It's one system covering and including everything. You LOSE your private insurance, but you get a much better healthcare insurance in return. It covers EVERYTHING apart from things like plastic surgery. The US has the worst healthcare system of all developped countries. Medicare for all would improve it significantly, cover everyone and save money. The fact that you keep insisting against these facts tell how brainwashed you are. My reason to advocate medicare for all for US is because I want Americans to have to better country and better healthcare. What is your reason to oppose it? Ignorance? Brainwashing? What?

The US is an oligarchy functioally. Almost all legistlation is done to serve the rich. Finland is not an oligarchy. Sure, there's some minor corruption in Finnish politics, but not even close to making the system oligarchy. Finland is one of the least corrupted countries in the World. I can understand you know NOTHING about distant and small Finland, but the ignorance you demonstrate of the political system of you own country is astonishing. It's as if you have just watched corporate media and that's it. You just believe their bs. Amazing.

Not as astonishing as your pontificating on the politics of the US. In every country politics serves the rich. If it were otherwise, there would be either no politics or no rich people.  Finns with money have more influence than Finns without money. It is possible Finns with money hide this better than Americans with money do. But politics is money.

In the US, networks are the heart of the insurance system. Go research in-network and out-of-network in US medical insurance, and then internalize the fact that Medicare for All means we Americans will have not have even the limited choice we have now.

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