And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

Started by JBS, June 26, 2019, 05:40:42 PM

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JBS

Quote from: 71 dB on July 15, 2019, 07:42:51 AM
My knowledge and understanding of the US politics is clearly too much for you so you compare my posts to Trump's tweets. You seem to be more interested of holding on to your ignorant beliefs than actually learn new things and facts.

If you insist on accepting the further left* as your source, you are not going to get an accurate picture of American politics. "You seem to be more interested of holding on to your ignorant beliefs than actually learn new things and facts."  is a very fair description of yourself.

You know Americans are generally farther to the right than Europe. So why can't you accept that people like Kulinski, while they may not seem very left to you in Europe, are so far to the left that they represent a minority of Americans?  .

I did not say watch CNN to get the facts. I said watch CNN to know what most of the American electorate thinks.

*as opposed to the far left, such as Antifa.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

JBS

Quote from: Muzio on July 15, 2019, 08:41:09 AM
President Trump pulled the USA out of the "man-made climate change" cabal.  Although the climate does change over long periods of time (e.g., ice age), man has little or nothing to do with it.  Lots of science to support this, as the President has noted.   :)

Donald J Trump wouldn't recognize a scientific fact even  if he fell into it.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Karl Henning

Quote from: Muzio on July 15, 2019, 08:41:09 AM
President Trump pulled the USA out of the "man-made climate change" cabal.  Although the climate does change over long periods of time (e.g., ice age), man has little or nothing to do with it.  Lots of science to support this, as the President has noted.   :)

The President knows as much science as a toad knows algebra.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Quote from: JBS on July 15, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
Donald J Trump wouldn't recognize a scientific fact even  if he fell into it.

I should have read on, first....
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

71 dB

#104
Quote from: JBS on July 15, 2019, 10:34:07 AM
If you insist on accepting the further left* as your source, you are not going to get an accurate picture of American politics. "You seem to be more interested of holding on to your ignorant beliefs than actually learn new things and facts."  is a very fair description of yourself.

You know Americans are generally farther to the right than Europe. So why can't you accept that people like Kulinski, while they may not seem very left to you in Europe, are so far to the left that they represent a minority of Americans?  .

I did not say watch CNN to get the facts. I said watch CNN to know what most of the American electorate thinks.

*as opposed to the far left, such as Antifa.

Many but not all Americans are conservative in social issues. You can be religious, you may hate gay people and so on, but EVERYONE loves paid vacation time. So, why is the US the only developped country without paid vacation time by law? It's not because Americans hate paid vacation time. It's because oligarchy. People don't know labels. Many lefty ideas are popular in the USA. The New Green Deal poll 70 % for example.

Kulinski is very left in the eyes of the establishment, but so what? He is still right most of the time while the establishment it wrong most of the time.  I know what American electorate thinks, because Kulinski explains these things. Watch his videos and see yourself!

As for the Overton Window, European countries tend to function better as societies, so maybe the European Overton Window is more correct? Are you really blind to how fucked up the US system is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch/v/W2AAtVGY30w
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Karl Henning

Quote from: 71 dB on July 15, 2019, 03:17:08 PM
Many but not all Americans are conservative in social issues. You can be religious, you may hate gay people and so on, but EVERYONE loves paid vacation time. So, why is the US the only developped country without paid vacation time by law? It's not because Americans hate paid vacation time. It's because oligarchy.

Your error is in going for the simple answer.  In fact, most if not all of the evil corporations provide paid vacation time.

Say, bingo! you make it a  law that all vusinesses must pay their employees for vacation.  QWhat percentage of small businesses go out of business (or lay off their employees, because, few though their employees are, the expense is too great.


JBS has a much better bead on the problems in the US than have you.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

71 dB

#106
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 15, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Your error is in going for the simple answer.  In fact, most if not all of the evil corporations provide paid vacation time.

Say, bingo! you make it a  law that all vusinesses must pay their employees for vacation.  QWhat percentage of small businesses go out of business (or lay off their employees, because, few though their employees are, the expense is too great.


JBS has a much better bead on the problems in the US than have you.

I know. Why not just return to slavery? That would be good for business. It's capitalism. Businesses die if they are not profitable.

I don't know why you are against me nowadays Karl. You used to be a cool guy and I respected you, but then something happened... Maybe you are too rich to care about anything?
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greg

Quote from: 71 dB on July 15, 2019, 04:59:17 PM
I don't know why you are against me nowadays Karl. You used to be a cool guy and I respected you, but then something happened... Maybe you are too rich to care about anything?
Dude... maybe I'm missing context (?), but sounds like you are taking what he said personal when it's not needed.

You can disagree with him and just continue on, of course.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

Karl Henning

Quote from: 71 dB on July 15, 2019, 04:59:17 PM
I know. Why not just return to slavery? That would be good for business. It's capitalism. Businesses die if they are not profitable.

I don't know why you are against me nowadays Karl. You used to be a cool guy and I respected you, but then something happened... Maybe you are too rich to care about anything?

Well, I am really sorry if I have been antagonistic, Poju. When we disagree, I'll try to be less adversarial.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

JBS

Quote from: 71 dB on July 15, 2019, 03:17:08 PM
Many but not all Americans are conservative in social issues. You can be religious, you may hate gay people and so on, but EVERYONE loves paid vacation time. So, why is the US the only developped country without paid vacation time by law? It's not because Americans hate paid vacation time. It's because oligarchy. People don't know labels. Many lefty ideas are popular in the USA. The New Green Deal poll 70 % for example.

Kulinski is very left in the eyes of the establishment, but so what? He is still right most of the time while the establishment it wrong most of the time.  I know what American electorate thinks, because Kulinski explains these things. Watch his videos and see yourself!

As for the Overton Window, European countries tend to function better as societies, so maybe the European Overton Window is more correct? Are you really blind to how fucked up the US system is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch/v/W2AAtVGY30w

Maybe by American standards European societies don't function better...
The US system is screwed up, but not in the way you think it is. By our standards, Europe in general suffers from government handling things it should not be handling. The Green New Deal is exactly the sort of thing that is anathema to how America works: government ordering people how to spend their money.

https://www.aier.org/article/fake-poll-green-new-deal

Kulinski is a leftist advocating leftist solutions.  I have watched some of his videos. He faithfully regurgitated leftist talking points. That you mistake those talking points for facts merely shows that you have a lot more to learn.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

schnittkease

So we take a middle ground approach? Let's see how that works out in 12 years.

JBS

Quote from: schnittkease on July 15, 2019, 06:44:18 PM
So we take a middle ground approach? Let's see how that works out in 12 years.

I think most leftist solutions are bad solutions, but my problem with 71db is very simple: he vastly overestimates the popularity and influence of leftist ideas, and mistakes mainstream American ideas for "corporate influence".

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Wendell_E

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 15, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Your error is in going for the simple answer.  In fact, most if not all of the evil corporations provide paid vacation time.

Say, bingo! you make it a  law that all businesses must pay their employees for vacation.  What percentage of small businesses go out of business (or lay off their employees, because, few though their employees are, the expense is too great.




To quote Firefly "let me do the math here. Nothing into nothin'. Carry the nothin'"

If an small business is so dependent on exploiting employees who are probably underpaid that they they can't squeeze out a week or two of vacation per year, they deserve to go out of business.

We do get that week where I work. The last time I actually took a full week was in 2011. Apparently, there are many people in my position.

https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/survey-52-of-american-workers-didnt-use-all-their-vacation-days-in-2017
"Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." ― Mark Twain

71 dB

Quote from: JBS on July 15, 2019, 06:33:40 PM
Kulinski is a leftist advocating leftist solutions.  I have watched some of his videos. He faithfully regurgitated leftist talking points. That you mistake those talking points for facts merely shows that you have a lot more to learn.

Kulinski is a far leftist from American perspective and a social democrat from European perspective. He says that out loud. Of course support for say medicare for all is an opinion, but an opinion based on facts. Medicare for all system around the World get everyone covered, cost less and lack problems the US healthcare system has such as medical bankruptcy. Kulinski can DEFEND his lefty talking points rationally.

At least I know I have a lot to learn. You seem to think you already know everything...

 
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: JBS on July 15, 2019, 07:00:19 PM
I think most leftist solutions are bad solutions, but my problem with 71db is very simple: he vastly overestimates the popularity and influence of leftist ideas, and mistakes mainstream American ideas for "corporate influence".

The leftist solutions people like Kulinski proposes are very succesful in many countries. That's WHY they propose them in the first place. Lefty people like Kulinski want to improve the country, improve peoples lives. If Nordic countries are happier, have longer life expectancy, lower infant morality and so on, perhaps that's the way to go?

Popularity is one thing. Another thing is what is rational and morally right. Things can become more popular. I don't know under what rock have you lived, by lefty ideas have become more popular in the recent years. In 2016 Medicare for all was a "fringe" idea. Now isn't anymore even when the corporate media tries to smear it non-stop.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

#115
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 15, 2019, 06:25:13 PM
Well, I am really sorry if I have been antagonistic, Poju. When we disagree, I'll try to be less adversarial.

Thanks Karl.

I dont know... ...your posts tend to be short, but your condensating message is clear: 71 dBs post are worthless. Sorry if I overreact.

I am sick an tired of being called a clueless non-American. If you don't see the value of what the left is doing in the US trying to restore democracy and trying to improve the country and people's lifes then you don't. I see it, because I don't live in a country where the media
brainwashes people to believe corporate profits is all that counts and if you don't make it in life it's all your own fault no matter how poor
family you come from. The left is not advocating equal outcomes (socialism). They are advocating equal opportunity (social democracy). Things like tuition free education is equal opportunity. You Americans think you have nothing to learn from other countries. Open your eyes!

You do know and understand that the corporate media belittles the left? They ignore if they can. That's why the left looks small. When TYT arranges a protest against money in politics, the corporate media doesn't cover it. So most people don't know these protests happen. When the corporate media can't ignore they smear: "Medicare for all will cost 32 trillion over 10 years - how are we going  to PAY for it??" leaving out that the current system costs MORE. Also it's funny how they are fiscally conservative ONLY when it is about improving peoples lives. There is ALWAYS money for wars and Wall Street bailouts, but when it's foods stamps for kids the money is hard to find.  :P
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

drogulus

Quote from: JBS on July 15, 2019, 06:33:40 PM
Maybe by American standards European societies don't function better...
The US system is screwed up, but not in the way you think it is. By our standards, Europe in general suffers from government handling things it should not be handling. The Green New Deal is exactly the sort of thing that is anathema to how America works: government ordering people how to spend their money.



     This is a common American opinion, that solutions are the problems. But it operates as a generality, and falls apart when you get to cases. The government screws things up in general, but the services are essential when we get them. Only the most crankish want to give them back for "liberty", and only because they know they won't have to.

     It's also common to think European governments handle too many problems, like delivering health care and providing other services Americans have less of. Once again it's a generality. First class infrastructure isn't such a burden in countries that have it, and Nordic taxation can hardly be a burden in countries where it's practically illegal to be poor.
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Muzio

Quote from: JBS on July 15, 2019, 10:35:28 AM
Donald J Trump wouldn't recognize a scientific fact even  if he fell into it.
Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 15, 2019, 12:21:30 PM
The President knows as much science as a toad knows algebra.
Guys, guys!!  Please!  Such language about our President!   :(  To the contrary, he is very intelligent.  In fact, President Trump is a genius, as confirmed in this tweet:



Now back to the man-made climate change thing.  (71db will want to listen up.)  The Department of Physics and Astronomy, located at the Univ. of Turku in the country of Finland (somewhere in Europe :)), has very recently issued the results of a study that is getting a lot of press.  It is entitled, "No experimental evidence for the significant anthropogenic climate change."  You can read the study here:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1907.00165.pdf

Also, the study was briefly discussed on a prestigious current events TV program:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayUXpxWmzgg

Right again, President Trump!!  :-*


JBS

Quote from: 71 dB on July 16, 2019, 03:00:47 AM
The leftist solutions people like Kulinski proposes are very succesful in many countries. That's WHY they propose them in the first place. Lefty people like Kulinski want to improve the country, improve peoples lives. If Nordic countries are happier, have longer life expectancy, lower infant morality and so on, perhaps that's the way to go?

Popularity is one thing. Another thing is what is rational and morally right. Things can become more popular. I don't know under what rock have you lived, by lefty ideas have become more popular in the recent years. In 2016 Medicare for all was a "fringe" idea. Now isn't anymore even when the corporate media tries to smear it non-stop.

Medicare for all still is a fringe idea.  It would also suck up all the money in the US economy to pay for it, so it can't be cheaper. That's not a fringe idea, that's a fact.  It would lead to better health care for some people, but poorer health care for most people.   That too is a fact, and nothing Mr. Kulinski can say can change that. 

I have said it once before:  you don't accept Kulinski's assertions because they are fact based.  You accept them because you and he are both leftists, and you don't subject them to the scrutiny they deserve because you happen to like the policies.

If Nordic countries are happier, have longer life expectancy, lower infant morality

Two fatal flaws to your reasoning:  You are assuming those things would not happen without specific government action, and even more fundamentally, you're assuming it's government's job to ensure those things happen.  If you want to truly understand the American system, you need to understand the American system doesn't operate on those assumptions.  The American system is based on the premise that government's job is solely and simply to ensure that people can find their own means of happiness, prosperity, and health.  That's why the DOI says "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" instead of "life, liberty, and happiness".

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

drogulus

Quote from: JBS on July 16, 2019, 06:58:37 AM
Medicare for all still is a fringe idea.  It would also suck up all the money in the US economy to pay for it, so it can't be cheaper.



     When programs provide money it's the opposite of sucking money up. No country goes broke from big programs, party because money sovereigns can only go broke by external debt, not in their own currency.

     This is where the "how are you going to pay for it" types on the right and left are so off base. Stephanie Kelton said the truest thing ever: "Money doesn't grow on rich people". They get their money from everyone else. The rich don't fund all of us, we fund them, and net government spending funds us. I don't counterfeit dollars, neither does Amazon or Missouri. I don't issue "my own money", there are no Droguli, and I don't have the tax power to give them value.

     Spending for programs makes us rich. The idea of absolute cost, where the money for Medicare for all or the Green New Deal disappears after it's spent, is ridiculous. All of the biggest benefits will have the biggest costs. Unspent dollars are not saved, they don't exist. Nobody gets rich from undollars.
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