And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

Started by JBS, June 26, 2019, 05:40:42 PM

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schnittkease


71 dB

Quote from: JBS on July 18, 2019, 05:37:20 PM
Obama is the most leftward POTUS in American history. And he won in large part because blacks turned out in high numbers, a lot of whites thought it was high time a black became President, and--very importantly--he campaigned as much more moderate/ centrist than he really was.

In economic issues FDR was clearly more left than Obama.
In social issues maybe not, but the World has changed a lot since FDR so it's not really fair to compare.
Obama campaigned kind of leftist and governed as a moderate / centrist.
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71 dB

#182
Quote from: JBS on July 18, 2019, 07:03:59 PM
Speaking of Bernie
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/labor-fight-roils-bernie-sanders-campaign-as-workers-demand-the-15-hourly-pay-the-candidate-has-proposed-for-employees-nationwide/2019/07/18/3a6df9f4-a966-11e9-9214-246e594de5d5_story.html

I don't want to hassle with the European data protection (internet used to be simple, free and open...) so I didn't read this, but I think it's WP smearing Bernie Sanders by NOT writing about other candidates about same issues to give an impression ONLY Bernie has problems of some kind. The same was done with the sexual harassment thing: They wrote about sexual harassment in Bernies campaign while NOT writing about campaigns of OTHER candidates AS IF sexual harassment ONLY happened in Bernies campaign. Of course NOT.

WP and rest of the corporate media can go to HELL!! Fuck them!
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Karl Henning

Quote from: 71 dB on July 19, 2019, 03:35:29 AM
I don't want to hassle with the European data protection (internet used to be simple, free and open...) so I didn't read this, but I think it's WP smearing Bernie Sanders by NOT writing about other candidates ...

You realize the folly of offering an opinion on something you haven't read?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

71 dB

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on July 19, 2019, 05:52:25 AM
You realize the folly of offering an opinion on something you haven't read?

Yes, but that's what I have to do unless people actually QUOTE here the text behind paywalls/European data protection bs. It's not anymore 2002 when you just gave the link and anyone anywhere had effortless access to it.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

schnittkease

I did read the article, and it was a typical hit-piece by WaPo. The workers are being paid 17/h but since they are now working around 60h/week (they had contracts for 40h/week) the effective hourly rate drops. Negotiations are taking place.

Warren found a loophole to avoid paying her interns anything, but no one talks about that, do they?


Karl Henning

Quote from: schnittkease on July 19, 2019, 09:52:42 AM
I did read the article, and it was a typical hit-piece by WaPo. The workers are being paid 17/h but since they are now working around 60h/week (they had contracts for 40h/week) the effective hourly rate drops. Negotiations are taking place.

Warren found a loophole to avoid paying her interns anything, but no one talks about that, do they?



Perhaps they're volunteers? Just a thought.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

JBS

Quote from: schnittkease on July 19, 2019, 09:52:42 AM
I did read the article, and it was a typical hit-piece by WaPo. The workers are being paid 17/h but since they are now working around 60h/week (they had contracts for 40h/week) the effective hourly rate drops. Negotiations are taking place.

Warren found a loophole to avoid paying her interns anything, but no one talks about that, do they?

In this case the unionized workers are staff workers, not interns.
I do find it amusing in a bittersweet way that you and 71db agree with Trump on at least one thing. You don't like the WaPo. It seems you are judging the messenger, not the message. If a reporter does the job correctly, every piece should be a hit piece. The candidate will make sure to present everything good about himself. It's the job of the media to make sure the public is informed about everything the csndidate doesn't want to known. Showing Bernie's practices don't match his rhetoric is what the Post should be doing. If Warren's practice are similarly mismatched, they should report on that. But that doesn't mean they should not report on Bernie's flaws.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

schnittkease

Quote from: JBS on July 19, 2019, 12:52:35 PM
In this case the unionized workers are staff workers, not interns.
I do find it amusing in a bittersweet way that you and 71db agree with Trump on at least one thing. You don't like the WaPo. It seems you are judging the messenger, not the message. If a reporter does the job correctly, every piece should be a hit piece. The candidate will make sure to present everything good about himself. It's the job of the media to make sure the public is informed about everything the csndidate doesn't want to known. Showing Bernie's practices don't match his rhetoric is what the Post should be doing. If Warren's practice are similarly mismatched, they should report on that. But that doesn't mean they should not report on Bernie's flaws.

I agree that every piece should be a hit-piece. That's not what's happening. Bernie's campaign is paying their staff workers $17/hr on the assumption that they were working 40hr weeks. Obviously, this is not the case anymore, so negotiations are taking place. The media outlets are portaying the situation as if Bernie is opposed to any compensation whatsoever.

JBS

Quote from: schnittkease on July 19, 2019, 03:17:29 PM
I agree that every piece should be a hit-piece. That's not what's happening. Bernie's campaign is paying their staff workers $17/hr on the assumption that they were working 40hr weeks. Obviously, this is not the case anymore, so negotiations are taking place. The media outlets are portaying the situation as if Bernie is opposed to any compensation whatsoever.

No, they are portraying it as if Bernie is underpaying them for a 60 hour week and giving them no help with health insurance benefits. Which is pretty close to the facts.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

SimonNZ

GOP Insiders Fear Kamala Could Be The Next Obama

"About the time Kamala Harris finished slicing and dicing Joe Biden, like Ed Valenti demonstrating a Ginsu knife, my cell phone started pinging with Republican operatives saying, in effect, "I told you so."

For months I've been in contact with a group of senior Republican strategists keeping tabs on Donald Trump and the party's view of the unfolding Democratic presidential primary. Since the beginning of the campaign, these people have been worried that Biden constituted the biggest political threat to Trump's reelection. Early public opinion polls certainly lend credibility to their concerns. But a smaller, though equally distinguished group of Republican operatives in my Rolodex, a sort of GOP cult of Kamala, had been insisting for weeks that Harris was being radically underestimated. With her surgical vivisection of Biden in the first debate, it seemed their fears had been realized. Now, as Democrats prepare for a second round of debates next week, these strategists are raising the alarm.

"I think she's dangerous, and probably maybe the most dangerous, from our view," a veteran Republican political consultant told me this month. "She theoretically would do very well with African American turnout and end up being positioned as a Vienna Soccer Mom." In case you're wondering, that's Vienna, Virginia, an upscale bedroom community just west of Washington, D.C., that has accelerated its drift from the Republican orbit since a certain former reality-television star secured the Republican nomination three years ago. Suburbs just like it in critical battlegrounds could hand the White House back to the Democratic Party in 2020.

"She made a mistake with private health care," this Republican operative conceded, referring to Harris's serial flip-flops on Medicare for All and whether her plans for overhauling health care would lead to the abolition of private insurance. "But she doesn't come across as a nutjob."

Harris, 54, is California's junior U.S. senator and former state attorney general. She might have more natural political skill than any of her competitors for the Democratic nomination. She certainly checks more boxes—African American, woman, racially diverse, a legitimate strength in a party occasionally obsessed with identity politics. Harris also is something of a Washington outsider, or could claim to be, at least, having served in Congress for less than three years. Unlike Biden, she has not spent decades on Capitol Hill making tough choices or agreeing to imperfect compromises.

If any of this rings familiar, it's because it is. The last Democrat to win the presidency, Barack Obama, was all of those things, save for the obvious. That is why some Republicans take it as an article of faith that by the time the Democrats gather in Milwaukee a little less than a year from now to coronate their nominee, Harris will be the guest of honor. Who else could they possibly nominate? some Republicans have told me, convinced. But in dismantling Biden on the big stage in Miami, Harris showcased how she might earn it—and why next week's debate in Detroit could be decisive.

Not everyone buys the idea that Harris is the next Obama, superficial similarities aside. "She's overrated," says a Republican grandee who still has battle scars from run-ins with the 44th president. "Obama had authenticity. She doesn't." Another Republican strategist who doesn't buy the the hype called Harris "terrible" and "a disaster."

But some dialed-in Republicans described Harris as a serious threat. "I have long been most concerned about Harris. I think she has an appeal to the Scottsdale soccer mom who is a registered Republican. Between her appeal and Trump's women problems, she has probably already won those voters," said an experienced Republican consultant in Arizona, an emerging battleground that sent a Democrat to the U.S. Senate in 2018 for the first time in a generation and is ground zero for suburban discontent with Trump. "But I also think she does better amongst Independents who generally split ideologically in Arizona," this GOP insider added. "Independents are just sick of everything, and her no-nonsense approach would have appeal broadly, and even to some white Independent and GOP men. She doesn't have the Biden wimp factor, and that's probably important in a place like Arizona."

JBS

Quote from: SimonNZ on July 26, 2019, 05:29:47 PM
GOP Insiders Fear Kamala Could Be The Next Obama

"About the time Kamala Harris finished slicing and dicing Joe Biden, like Ed Valenti demonstrating a Ginsu knife, my cell phone started pinging with Republican operatives saying, in effect, "I told you so."

For months I've been in contact with a group of senior Republican strategists keeping tabs on Donald Trump and the party's view of the unfolding Democratic presidential primary. Since the beginning of the campaign, these people have been worried that Biden constituted the biggest political threat to Trump's reelection. Early public opinion polls certainly lend credibility to their concerns. But a smaller, though equally distinguished group of Republican operatives in my Rolodex, a sort of GOP cult of Kamala, had been insisting for weeks that Harris was being radically underestimated. With her surgical vivisection of Biden in the first debate, it seemed their fears had been realized. Now, as Democrats prepare for a second round of debates next week, these strategists are raising the alarm.

"I think she's dangerous, and probably maybe the most dangerous, from our view," a veteran Republican political consultant told me this month. "She theoretically would do very well with African American turnout and end up being positioned as a Vienna Soccer Mom." In case you're wondering, that's Vienna, Virginia, an upscale bedroom community just west of Washington, D.C., that has accelerated its drift from the Republican orbit since a certain former reality-television star secured the Republican nomination three years ago. Suburbs just like it in critical battlegrounds could hand the White House back to the Democratic Party in 2020.

"She made a mistake with private health care," this Republican operative conceded, referring to Harris's serial flip-flops on Medicare for All and whether her plans for overhauling health care would lead to the abolition of private insurance. "But she doesn't come across as a nutjob."

Harris, 54, is California's junior U.S. senator and former state attorney general. She might have more natural political skill than any of her competitors for the Democratic nomination. She certainly checks more boxes—African American, woman, racially diverse, a legitimate strength in a party occasionally obsessed with identity politics. Harris also is something of a Washington outsider, or could claim to be, at least, having served in Congress for less than three years. Unlike Biden, she has not spent decades on Capitol Hill making tough choices or agreeing to imperfect compromises.

If any of this rings familiar, it's because it is. The last Democrat to win the presidency, Barack Obama, was all of those things, save for the obvious. That is why some Republicans take it as an article of faith that by the time the Democrats gather in Milwaukee a little less than a year from now to coronate their nominee, Harris will be the guest of honor. Who else could they possibly nominate? some Republicans have told me, convinced. But in dismantling Biden on the big stage in Miami, Harris showcased how she might earn it—and why next week's debate in Detroit could be decisive.

Not everyone buys the idea that Harris is the next Obama, superficial similarities aside. "She's overrated," says a Republican grandee who still has battle scars from run-ins with the 44th president. "Obama had authenticity. She doesn't." Another Republican strategist who doesn't buy the the hype called Harris "terrible" and "a disaster."

But some dialed-in Republicans described Harris as a serious threat. "I have long been most concerned about Harris. I think she has an appeal to the Scottsdale soccer mom who is a registered Republican. Between her appeal and Trump's women problems, she has probably already won those voters," said an experienced Republican consultant in Arizona, an emerging battleground that sent a Democrat to the U.S. Senate in 2018 for the first time in a generation and is ground zero for suburban discontent with Trump. "But I also think she does better amongst Independents who generally split ideologically in Arizona," this GOP insider added. "Independents are just sick of everything, and her no-nonsense approach would have appeal broadly, and even to some white Independent and GOP men. She doesn't have the Biden wimp factor, and that's probably important in a place like Arizona."

Her chief obstacle would be from the Left,  since they want only a True Progressive to be nominated no matter how much that increases the probability of Trump being reelected. (Witness 71db's disdain for her.)

She does have some weaknesses as a candidate, mostly arising from her record as  California's AG and San Francisco prosecutor before that.
There is also her connection to Willie Brown. (She dated/had an affair with him. He gave her a political leg up.) From Wikipedia.
QuoteBrown's relationship with Alamada County deputy district attorney Kamala Harris preceded his appointment of Harris to two California state commissions in the early 1990s. The positions on the Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board and the California Medical Assistance Commission were described by local newspaper the San Francisco Chronicle as patronage positions. When the appointments became a political issue in Harris's 2003 race for District Attorney, she responded: "Whether you agree or disagree with the system, I did the work".[58] Brown's past relationship with Harris gained renewed attention in early 2019 after she had become a U.S. senator and launched a presidential bid. The Washington Free Beacon, Fox News and Business Insider, among others, published pieces relating to the relationship.[59][60][61][62] Brown addressed the questions by publishing a piece in the San Francisco Chronicle entitled "Sure, I dated Kamala Harris. So what?". He wrote that he may have "influenced" her career by appointing her to boards and supporting her run for District Attorney, but added that he had also influenced the careers of other politicians. Brown noted that difference between Harris and other politicians he had helped was that "Harris is the only one who, after I helped her, sent word that I would be indicted if I 'so much as jaywalked' while she was D.A. That's politics for ya".[63

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

amw

Honestly I think if you took out all the fifth tier candidates and distributed their votes among the top four you'd probably find Biden, Harris, Sanders and Warren all at about the same % of the Democratic primary electorate at the moment. None of them has massive support from the party base, but all of them have high name recognition & reasonably low disapproval ratings, so it probably all depends on the debates & then their get out the vote operations.

Karl Henning

Quote from: amw on July 26, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Honestly I think if you took out all the fifth tier candidates and distributed their votes among the top four you'd probably find Biden, Harris, Sanders and Warren all at about the same % of the Democratic primary electorate at the moment. None of them has massive support from the party base, but all of them have high name recognition & reasonably low disapproval ratings, so it probably all depends on the debates & then their get out the vote operations.

It's early in the game, in fact, earlier even than usual.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

JBS

Quote from: amw on July 26, 2019, 06:24:58 PM
Honestly I think if you took out all the fifth tier candidates and distributed their votes among the top four you'd probably find Biden, Harris, Sanders and Warren all at about the same % of the Democratic primary electorate at the moment. None of them has massive support from the party base, but all of them have high name recognition & reasonably low disapproval ratings, so it probably all depends on the debates & then their get out the vote operations.

You are probably right.
At the moment I simply want them to nominate the candidate who can best claim the title of "The Sane One". In contrast to DJT.
BTW speaking of Warren
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/07/26/politics/elizabeth-warren-donors/index.html

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

amw

Yes I was going to add, it's six months until the first votes are cast, but it seems likely they'll continue to be the top 4 (or so). (And in 2015, Trump was at the head of the Republican pack by this time)


71 dB

#197
Getting rid of Trump is not the only thing the US needs. The US needs to get rid of oligarchy, the very thing that eventually led to Trump when desperate people were ready to vote for ANYONE to get change. The US needs change. Kamala Harris doesn't bring change. She is part of the oligarchic system benefitting from it. It's just no more mean tweets, but that doesn't help regular people. It doesn't help working poor, it doesn't help to avoid medical benkruptcies, it doesn't help fixing tap water crisis in Michigan, it doesn't help people who can't buy houses because they pay student loan depts the rest of their lives.

There is a reason why a non-progressive Dem is not enough. Bernie will beat Trump easily if given the nomination. Bernie brings the change the system that led to Trump. Regular people stop struggling in the richest country in the world. But if American's want to keep the oligachy to enrich the billionaires I suppose the next president can be Kamala Harris.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

Karl Henning

Quote from: 71 dB on July 27, 2019, 09:01:59 AM
Getting rid of Trump is not the only thing the US needs. The US needs to get rid of oligarchy, the very thing that eventually led to Trump when desperate people were ready to vote for ANYONE to get change. The US needs change. Kamala Harris doesn't bring change. She is part of the oligarchic system benefitting from it. It's just no more mean tweets, but that doesn't help regular people. It doesn't help working poor, it doesn't help to avoid medical benkruptcies, it doesn't help fixing tap water crisis in Michigan, it doesn't help people who can't buy houses because they pay student loan depts the rest of their lives.

There is a reason why a non-progressive Dem is not enough. Bernie will beat Trump easily if given the nomination. Bernie brings the change the system that led to Trump. Regular people stop struggling in the richest country in the world. But if American's want to keep the oligachy to enrich the billionaires I suppose the next president can be Kamala Harris.

You should stop, because you've tired of being told you're wrong, but you don't tire of calling people who disagree with you "idiots."

Really, you ought to have stopped, without the drama of creating, a pointless (judging by your present post) thread announcing that you're supposedly stopping.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot