And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

Started by JBS, June 26, 2019, 05:40:42 PM

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drogulus


     I don't need the media to reflect my views, I need them to inform my views. I do my own balancing, if that is what I'm doing. One thing to ponder is how different news sources rate on information density. Low density is an uh oh thing for me. Fox and MSNBC are both highly opinion driven especially in prime time. Fox is an information wasteland. They are often in open conflict with their own news people. This is odd. I can't imagine MSNBC opinionizers like Maddow or O'Donnell adopting "don't believe what you see and hear" gambits about what reporters are reporting, either from their own news outlet or any other, even Fox. They observe the forms about the news/analysis/opinion hierarchy, which is good because so do I.
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71 dB

GMG is working very slow for me at the moment...  ::)

Quote from: SimonNZ on August 20, 2019, 04:14:18 AM
There has been considerable coverage in what you call the corporate media of their ideas, and while some may have been critical they weren't "smeared" - well, apart from at Fox, of course.

If you don't see it you don't see it. I see how the corporate media frames things from corporate perspective. For example those who advocate single payer healthcare are asked hard* questions such as "how are we going to pay for it?" to frame the issue as something fiscally impossible while those who don't advocate single payer healthcare are asked soft ball questions. They aren't asked how they are going to cover everybody or end medical bankruptcies. When there is bipartisan increase in military budget the corporate media NEVER asks how are we going to pay for it, but when it's about something that would benefit the regular people that start asking how to pay for it. That's framing things from corporate perspective and if you don't see it then you don't and I can't think of you as a smart person, at least politically.

* Not hard in that people like Bernie Sanders can easily answer these questions, but regular people may get an idea that these are pie in the sky things...
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Karl Henning

Quote from: schnittkease on August 19, 2019, 08:58:42 PM
Just another instance of the media trying to make a profit at the expense of (people's perception of) the left.

So why does the need to make a profit not taint vox.com, again?
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

drogulus

Quote from: 71 dB on August 20, 2019, 09:20:43 AM
GMG is working very slow for me at the moment...  ::)



     I'm getting the same thing.

     On the general subject of "pay for", spending is the pay for. The tax return is the opposite of a pay for, used to suppress excess inflation without taking back too much and sinking the economy.

     There is no "how are you gonna...?" in a pay for. You do it, or you don't.
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Muzio

Democrat Insiders Fear Tulsi Gabbard Will Run Independent Presidential Candidacy in 2020 
https://bigleaguepolitics.com/democrat-insiders-fear-tulsi-gabbard-will-run-independent-presidential-candidacy-in-2020/

...Gabbard's independent streak has Democratic Party insiders worried that she might flip following the presidential primaries, and run as an independent third-party candidate to give liberal voters a more authentic option at the polls in 2020.

"Hot take/prediction: Tulsi Gabbard is going to endorse Trump in the end," The Hill correspondent Reid Wilson said in a Twitter post on Tuesday.

"My prediction: Tulsi runs as third-party Green candidate to help Trump win. I will take bets on this," said Neera Tanden, who works as president of the Center for American Progress.

"Advice to the world: Don't take Neera's bet. She is 100% right on this," said David Rothkopf, who was a former Clinton Administration appointee.

Muzio

Actress and activist Susan Sarandon took a hard swipe at Elizabeth Warren during an "ice cream social" event for Bernie Sanders in Cedar Rapids, Iowa (from breitbart.com with 26-second video)

Sarandon was championing Sanders' progressive credentials when she threw in the dig at Warren, because of the fact that she used to be a Republican.

"I'm heartened by the fact that so many people are on the ground knocking on doors and helping to give information that the mainstream media either is suppressing or corrupting or misrepresenting," Sarandon said. "It's so, so important, because when people know and when they hear the senator's policies, when they see his track record, when they know how authentic he is and how he has been fighting for these issues for so long, that he is the only one that had that reputation."

"He is not someone who used to be a Republican, he is not someone who used to take money, or still takes money, from Wall Street, he is the real deal," Sarandon continued.

Warren was a registered Republican until 1996.

It wasn't just Warren who was in Sarandon's crosshairs at the event, she also knocked former Vice President Joe Biden for wanting a "middle of the road" approach to climate change.

"We don't have time for middle ground," Sarandon said.

SimonNZ

Warren should use that in her campaigning, claiming it was the Rs batshit move to the extreme right with Gingrich and Limbaugh and Clinton's sustained economic growth that opened her eyes.

Sarandon is being a total dick in helping the Trump camp as much as she's "helping" Sanders in this way.

schnittkease

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 20, 2019, 09:30:40 AM
So why does the need to make a profit not taint vox.com, again?

I never said Vox was perfect (far from it), but they certainly aren't the worst actors.

Quote from: SimonNZ on August 20, 2019, 03:20:25 PM
Sarandon is being a total dick in helping the Trump camp as much as she's "helping" Sanders in this way.

Agreed...


greg

Quote from: 71 dB on August 20, 2019, 04:01:10 AM
It's true that Dems have become SOCIALLY more liberal, but on economic issues corporate Dems are not more left. The study you post shows Repubs have moved a little bit more conservative on social issues. Overton Window means the allowed spectrum of political discource in the media. You have lefty politicians like AOC and ilhan Omar in DC, but that doesn't mean their ideas are allowed in the corporate media. They are outside the Overton Window and smeared for that.
Yeah that definitely makes sense.

Though I think AOC and such are controversial for a reason so maybe for them I don't see the problem.

Either way, probably would be best if more political parties were created to accomodate this.
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie


71 dB

Quote from: schnittkease on August 21, 2019, 12:33:15 PM
Obama Repeatedly Tried to Get Biden Not to Run for President


Yikes!

Kyle Kulinski's theory is that this story comes out now, because Obama has realized Biden has lost the race and won't be the nominee and instead will just tarnish the Obama legacy with all his gaffes and "I was Obama's VP" stuff while campaigning.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

71 dB

Quote from: greg on August 21, 2019, 12:30:36 PM
Yeah that definitely makes sense.

Though I think AOC and such are controversial for a reason so maybe for them I don't see the problem.

Either way, probably would be best if more political parties were created to accomodate this.

The US could easily have Green Party/other "third" party politicians in the DC if the system wasn't rigged for two parties. This rigging is the reason why AOC and other progressives are Dems and not third party members. The plan is to take over the Dems and make it again a lefty party for the regular people it should have been all a long.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
and less tiresome in headphone listening.

My Sound Cloud page <-- NEW Jan. 2024 "Harpeggiator"

drogulus

Quote from: 71 dB on August 21, 2019, 01:39:58 PM
Kyle Kulinski's theory is that this story comes out now, because Obama has realized Biden has lost the race and won't be the nominee and instead will just tarnish the Obama legacy with all his gaffes and "I was Obama's VP" stuff while campaigning.

     It's more likely it comes out now because Obama thinks Biden might win the nomination and tarnish the Obama legacy. That's not an unreasonable suspicion given how Biden has performed.
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Karl Henning

Quote from: schnittkease on August 20, 2019, 11:30:22 PM
I never said Vox was perfect (far from it), but they certainly aren't the worst actors.

Agreed...
Quote from: greg on August 21, 2019, 12:30:36 PM
YeEither way, probably would be best if more political parties were created to accomodate this.

Maybe, but they would have to emerge organically.  I don't see that happening at present.

If there were more parties today, the result would just be the balkanization of the opposition to Trump, and he'd be the beneficiary.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

amw

Quote from: drogulus on August 21, 2019, 02:17:49 PM
     It's more likely it comes out now because Obama thinks Biden might win the nomination and tarnish the Obama legacy. That's not an unreasonable suspicion given how Biden has performed.
Yes, Biden is definitely still the second choice of most voters after "undecided" & I think has the best chance of getting the nomination and subsequently losing to trump.

JBS

Quote from: 71 dB on August 21, 2019, 01:48:40 PM
The US could easily have Green Party/other "third" party politicians in the DC if the system wasn't rigged for two parties. This rigging is the reason why AOC and other progressives are Dems and not third party members. The plan is to take over the Dems and make it again a lefty party for the regular people it should have been all a long.

They tried that in the late 60s and 70s. Result Nixon/Ford, Reagan, Bush Jr.  The only Democrat in that run was not re-elected and was elected in the first place mainly because Ford pardoned Nixon. It's only when Democrats moved centerwards and picked Clinton that they started winning again.

Take this as your rule of thumb: the more you like a candidate on policy grounds, the easier it would be for Trump to beat them.

I'm guessing you think I'm a conservative or right wing. I'm not, at least in American terms. I am actually moderate/slightly left of center. Now calibrate your idea of the American voter from that peg.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

greg

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on August 21, 2019, 04:56:10 PM
If there were more parties today, the result would just be the balkanization of the opposition to Trump, and he'd be the beneficiary.
Most likely, yeah.
If the US completely went for it, I could see the conservative side splitting as well, but probably it would be into far fewer parties than the liberal side would.

But since this is already happening, in a way it may be helping Trump already. Right now, the only thing uniting the left is hatred for Trump, which is pretty sad to say the least. The saying "the left eventually eats itself" is true in this way- that excessive division will only cause harm for them. Which is ironic from the party that often likes to say "Diversity is our strength," when the very diversity of philosophies emerging from the left is dividing and weakening them.

At the same time, I like the diversity of opinions, though. It seems like the more parties the better, though maybe I could be wrong? (since I'm no world history/political expert).
Wagie wagie get back in the cagie

drogulus

Quote from: JBS on August 21, 2019, 06:39:28 PM
They tried that in the late 60s and 70s. Result Nixon/Ford, Reagan, Bush Jr.  The only Democrat in that run was not re-elected and was elected in the first place mainly because Ford pardoned Nixon. It's only when Democrats moved centerwards and picked Clinton that they started winning again.

Take this as your rule of thumb: the more you like a candidate on policy grounds, the easier it would be for Trump to beat them.

I'm guessing you think I'm a conservative or right wing. I'm not, at least in American terms. I am actually moderate/slightly left of center. Now calibrate your idea of the American voter from that peg.

     Biden is at his high water mark. I believe Sanders is, too, because his support no longer includes everyone unhappy with Hillary.

     The showdown between Biden and Warren will be interesting. If she plays it right she won't try to take him down, but continue to talk policy. That what got her here.

   
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schnittkease

Quote from: drogulus on August 21, 2019, 08:00:51 PM
     Biden is at his high water mark. I believe Sanders is, too, because his support no longer includes everyone unhappy with Hillary.

Let's wait and see.