Author Topic: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020  (Read 278513 times)

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Muzio

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #500 on: September 13, 2019, 02:23:01 AM »
----> Deleted...not pertinent.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 03:21:57 AM by Muzio »

Muzio

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #501 on: September 19, 2019, 01:39:53 PM »
HILLARY CLINTON HAS MORE PEOPLE BETTING SHE'LL BE THE 2020 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE THAN ANY OF THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES: U.K. BOOKMAKER

"More bettors at one British bookmaker are backing Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic Party's 2020 nominee than they are any of the candidates actually running in the race, giving her better odds of winning than Senator Cory Booker and Beto O'Rourke, among others..."

https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-2020-nominee-democratic-party-election-odds-bookmaker-1459931

Offline drogulus

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #502 on: September 19, 2019, 02:23:22 PM »
HILLARY CLINTON HAS MORE PEOPLE BETTING SHE'LL BE THE 2020 DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE THAN ANY OF THE ACTUAL CANDIDATES: U.K. BOOKMAKER

"More bettors at one British bookmaker are backing Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic Party's 2020 nominee than they are any of the candidates actually running in the race, giving her better odds of winning than Senator Cory Booker and Beto O'Rourke, among others..."

https://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-2020-nominee-democratic-party-election-odds-bookmaker-1459931

      Given how people want to like candidates, or at least think of them as likeable, she would not fare well. Beauty contest factors aside, she would be superior to Biden as an actual President.

      While I'm inclined to support Warren, this doesn't seem to involve much liking. I didn't particularly like Obama, but the main point is I don't want to adopt a pol, even if they are cute and snuggly.
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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #503 on: September 19, 2019, 03:44:13 PM »
Hillary Clinton was clueless about how to beat Trump in 2016 and she hasn't learned anything since.
It's good she is not running. Too bad Joe "my time is up" Biden is and we need to hear all those Corn Pop/record player stories as if there wasn't more important things to talk about like Medicare for All, Climate Change, ending the wars, Student loan debt cancelation etc.

Bernie Sanders must be the next president period. Any sane person should see this by now.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #504 on: September 19, 2019, 05:35:30 PM »
Hillary Clinton was clueless about how to beat Trump in 2016 and she hasn't learned anything since.
It's good she is not running. Too bad Joe "my time is up" Biden is and we need to hear all those Corn Pop/record player stories as if there wasn't more important things to talk about like Medicare for All, Climate Change, ending the wars, Student loan debt cancelation etc.

Bernie Sanders must be the next president period. Any sane person should see this by now.

Then by your definition of sane, the vast majority of mankind is insane.

It's true that Bernie would be a better President than Trump, but that's a pretty low bar to reach. Even Mike Pence would be a better Presudent.

Please remember this: any candidate you like will lose to Trump because compared them Trump will seem the moderate person (policywise). It doesn't matter what policies you like. It's the American electorate who decides, and the American electorate is skeptical of Medicare for All, the Green New Deal, and a number of other things you think are obviously good.

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Offline drogulus

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #505 on: September 19, 2019, 06:04:11 PM »
Hillary Clinton was clueless about how to beat Trump in 2016 and she hasn't learned anything since.


     Not everyone that would be good at being President is good at running for the job, or being liked in that special way people like political candidates.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #506 on: September 19, 2019, 06:13:45 PM »
     Not everyone that would be good at being President is good at running for the job, or being liked in that special way people like political candidates.

And of course the converse is true. Being good at being a candidate does not mean being good at being a President. Obvious case in point: Trump.

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #507 on: September 20, 2019, 02:25:58 AM »
Then by your definition of sane, the vast majority of mankind is insane.

It's true that Bernie would be a better President than Trump, but that's a pretty low bar to reach. Even Mike Pence would be a better Presudent.

Please remember this: any candidate you like will lose to Trump because compared them Trump will seem the moderate person (policywise). It doesn't matter what policies you like. It's the American electorate who decides, and the American electorate is skeptical of Medicare for All, the Green New Deal, and a number of other things you think are obviously good.

If the mankind (the whole World) got to vote for the president of the US, I'm sure Bernie would do very well. That's of course not the case. Americans get to choose their president. That's how it must be. The problem is the US is not a real democracy but an oligarchy were the media is bought to maintain the status quo in the expense of most Americans so that Americans are the only people in a developped rich country one sickness away from bankruptcy. So, the media needs to smear those who try to fix the system. You are a prime example of such 'brainwashing'.

Why wasn't Tulsi Gabbard qualified for the 3rd debate? The military industry complex doesn't like her pasifism? That's oligarchy.

I like the polices I like. Doesn't matter. I can't vote in American elections. Educate yourself about what American's want. Understand how the media lies to you. Ask yourself who wants to live one sickness away from bankruptcy? Nobody. Who wants to pay $300 for insulin that costs $6 to make and is sold for $30 elsewhere? Do American diabetic people enjoy handing $270 to Big Pharma onwers and CEO's every time they buy insulin so they can buy new yachts? I don't think so. That's why Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren are in top 3 in the race. Joe 'my time is up' Biden is hanging there thanks to default support from people who don't follow politics, but who will abandon him as soon as they realise what a dumpster fire he has become. Not only are his politics Republican light, but his mind is clearly deterioting, sadly.

Elizabeth Warren is a good progressive candidate who has great ideas, but also questionable things and dark spots like foreign policy. Warren's commitment for Medicare for All is questionable and lightyears from that of Bernie Sanders who "wrote the damn bill" and has advocated it for decades instead of jumping on the bandwagon "lately" because it has become so popular (in some polls even half of Republican voters support it despite of relentless smearing in the media). We know Bernie Sanders is 1000 % committed. He is the man. Why choose the second best when you can have the best, the real thing?

The older voters are skeptical about Medicare for All and New Green Deal because these people follow the bought media that is bought to smear these things. Younger voters who follow more independent news sources get more objective information and overhelmingly support these "leftist" policies. That's why Biden has strong support among old voters and Sanders has strong support among young voters. Is it the old or the young people who are "out of touch"? That's what I encourage you to find out.
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Offline schnittkease

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #508 on: September 20, 2019, 01:46:01 PM »
Elizabeth Warren is a good progressive candidate who has great ideas, but also questionable things and dark spots like foreign policy. Warren's commitment for Medicare for All is questionable and lightyears from that of Bernie Sanders who "wrote the damn bill" and has advocated it for decades instead of jumping on the bandwagon "lately" because it has become so popular (in some polls even half of Republican voters support it despite of relentless smearing in the media). We know Bernie Sanders is 1000 % committed. He is the man. Why choose the second best when you can have the best, the real thing?

This. The narrative that Bernie and Warren are "the same" annoys me to no end.

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #509 on: September 20, 2019, 01:55:12 PM »
This. The narrative that Bernie and Warren are "the same" annoys me to no end.

Oh, me too.  8)
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #510 on: September 20, 2019, 04:24:53 PM »
This. The narrative that Bernie and Warren are "the same" annoys me to no end.

Agreed, although not necessarily from the POV you have.
 Bernie seems intent on proving himself an idiot, as with his fair housing proposal.  He imagines the American public would be fine with a federal bureaucracy telling them where they could live and how much rent they will have to pay,  and would support a program which if implemented in the real world would result in the exact opposite of its aim.

I don't know of any similar idiocy by Warren. She has her problems. Being late to the MfA party is a plus for me, of course, but evading the admission that it requires higher taxes is an example of her unloveliness.
She ought to know her wealth tax proposal, even if it passes Congress, would be tied up in legal challenges for years (it is, at least superficially, directly contrary to a explicit provision in the Constitution).

I will admit to a bit of bias.  I was born in Boston, and therefore any candidate who is from Massachusetts has an automatic advantage in my view of them.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 04:27:39 PM by JBS »

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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #511 on: September 20, 2019, 05:26:09 PM »
Living on the street is so much better... ...you are the idiot here.

Bernie's ideas would result in less housing construction for every one, because there would be no incentive to build new housing and worse housing conditions for those who pay rent (since landlords would cut corners on maintenance to match controlled rents) and higher eviction rates (since landlords would havevan incentive to evict and get new tenants who would start out with a higher rent). Also higher mortgage rates and other results of a restricted housing market.

IOW, Bernie's program would result in more slum dwellings and more homeless people.

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #512 on: September 20, 2019, 05:34:06 PM »
Bernie's ideas would result in less housing construction for every one, because there would be no incentive to build new housing and worse housing conditions for those who pay rent (since landlords would cut corners on maintenance to match controlled rents) and higher eviction rates (since landlords would havevan incentive to evict and get new tenants who would start out with a higher rent). Also higher mortgage rates and other results of a restricted housing market.

IOW, Bernie's program would result in more slum dwellings and more homeless people.

The unstated assumptions here are that landlords don't ALREADY cut corners and don't ALREADY get rid of tenants in order to get higher paying ones.

Those assumptions are not correct. Both of those things readily occur in a high-demand rental market because landlords believe (often correctly) they can get away with such behaviour because everyone needs somewhere to live and tenants will just have to cope/pay what's being demanded of them.

They are not problems that are caused in the way that you seem to think they are caused. Indeed, your unspoken belief that landlords will behave well just so long as they're paid enough money, and will spend the extra on the property rather than on themselves, is somewhat amusing in its naive faith in the trickle down effect.

Those are problems that are solved by having obligations on landlords, and rights for tenants.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 05:43:03 PM by Madiel »
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #513 on: September 20, 2019, 05:41:33 PM »
The unstated assumptions here are that landlords don't ALREADY cut corners and don't ALREADY get rid of tenants in order to get higher paying ones.

Those assumptions are not correct. Both of those things readily occur in a high-demand rental market because landlords believe (often correctly) they can get away with such behaviour because everyone needs somewhere to live and tenants will just have to cope/pay what's being demanded of them.

They are not problems that are caused in the way that you seem to think they are caused. And those are problems that are solved by having obligations on landlords, and rights for tenants.

You are right, and that's why Bernie's ideas are bad. They would increase the demand and associated behaviors.
Hopefully Australia is better at enforcing landlord duties/tenant's rights than the US, but here at least those duties and rights are enforced only in the most extreme obvious cases, and even when enforcement is a realistic option, finding an apartment with a different landlord is often the quickest solution.

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #514 on: September 20, 2019, 05:44:15 PM »
In regard to landlords, that's one area where Chairman Mao's policies cannot be faulted.

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #515 on: September 20, 2019, 05:46:26 PM »
I believe in some parts of the world, tenants can withhold rent if landlords fail in their obligations. Perhaps that's the best way of getting the attention of American landlords.

I don't see how controlled rent increases the demand for rental properties, unless you think renters with controlled rents have more babies. Maybe they will, there is in fact some evidence that financial pressure has an effect on family planning.

But demand for rental properties isn't driven by prices. It's driven by being a human being who requires shelter.

It's also considerably cheaper for society as a whole to house people rather than leave them homeless.
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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #516 on: September 20, 2019, 05:53:12 PM »

It's also considerably cheaper for society as a whole to house people rather than leave them homeless.

No argument, there.
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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #517 on: September 20, 2019, 05:54:06 PM »
      It's true that more tax comes back from more money going out unless you take action to prevent it. Consider though that cost shifting from premiums to taxes would have demand overlap, a term I made up. The demand boost from health care spending would be somewhat lessened by reduction in insurance premiums, so it's unclear that there would be enough inflation to justify actual rate increases. Another positive is that the economy is always better off when so called vertical money replaces commercial credit, the overuse of which is the debt that is a burden to actual living persons and actual future grandkiddies. The reciprocal nature of public/private debt balances is a basic feature of modern macroeconomics.

     Warren has nothing to admit. For that matter, neither does Trump with his idiotic tax cut. Idiotic it is, but it don't require a tax increase either.
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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #518 on: September 20, 2019, 05:57:50 PM »
No argument, there.

There is frequently argument from people who don't act or think as if they are part of a society.

Because many people seem to believe that if a cost is externalised, it ceases to exist.
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Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #519 on: September 20, 2019, 06:04:05 PM »
I believe in some parts of the world, tenants can withhold rent if landlords fail in their obligations. Perhaps that's the best way of getting the attention of American landlords.

I don't see how controlled rent increases the demand for rental properties, unless you think renters with controlled rents have more babies. Maybe they will, there is in fact some evidence that financial pressure has an effect on family planning.

But demand for rental properties isn't driven by prices. It's driven by being a human being who requires shelter.

It's also considerably cheaper for society as a whole to house people rather than leave them homeless.

Controlled rent limit supply in two ways. First, potential landlords have less incentive to  make new rental properties available.  Second, current tenants have an incentive to not move.

Witholding rent is a possibility here, but requires a good lawyer and the ability to navigate bureaucracy.  The people who have the worst landlord problems usually  don't have those two things because of poverty. 

There are loads of private and local government ideas to help the problem of affordable housing, most focused on the obvious idea of building new housing closer to the urban center.  Bernie's idea would throw most if that into a federal bureaucratic meatgrinder,

BTW, here in the States the housing problem often does not relate to homelessness, but instead to the problem faced by many people, not being able to afford housing that is reasonably priced but within reasonable distance of their work.

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