And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

Started by JBS, June 26, 2019, 05:40:42 PM

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drogulus


     The Hunter Biden story is a troubling tale of privilege

In sum, the story of the Bidens, father and son, is more pathetic than nefarious. Yet it might do damage anyway. Less privileged Americans can't be faulted if they wonder why their addicted loved ones are on the streets or in the morgue while the vice president's son is blessed with diamonds and sinecures. Multitudes locked up for years under Joe Biden's crime bill might ask why the author's son traveled the world scot-free. And sober working people making $50,000 a year may be skeptical of a system in which a vice president's addicted son reportedly collected that sum every month.

   
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Karl Henning

Quote from: Madiel on October 05, 2019, 08:00:34 PM
Lots of people are. 

Add to that how the definition that an American writer would give to the word is frequently at odds with how people elsewhere in the world would conceive it, and it's rarely a useful label.

EDIT: https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-many-tangled-american-definitions-of-socialism

SECOND EDIT: When people manage to apply the same label to Venezuela and to Norway, it's fairly obvious they're not really identifying something significant to a country's prospects.

In the USA, it is less a useful label, and more a register of prejudicial scorn.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Muzio

CNBC youtube video...5 minutes long...

"Elizabeth Warren is running as an advocate for the middle class and a critic of the wealthy. But the senator has amassed some wealth of her own too. Warren and her husband Bruce Mann's tax returns and Senate financial disclosure forms show the couple is worth millions. Here's where all that money came from..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=309&v=3qW1PrlqBUM

(When I tried to use the Flash controls, the finished page said, "Plug-in not supported.")

Florestan

Quote from: Madiel on October 06, 2019, 01:48:09 AM
I very nearly added that.

It's especially bad in Australia where the more right wing of our 2 main parties is called the Liberals. This confuses the hell out of anyone overseas.

The same here in Romania: the National Liberal Party --- which I vote by default --- is center-right, member of the European's People Party.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

drogulus

Quote from: Muzio on October 06, 2019, 10:18:59 AM
CNBC youtube video...5 minutes long...

"Elizabeth Warren is running as an advocate for the middle class and a critic of the wealthy. But the senator has amassed some wealth of her own too. Warren and her husband Bruce Mann's tax returns and Senate financial disclosure forms show the couple is worth millions. Here's where all that money came from..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=309&v=3qW1PrlqBUM



     Warren criticizes tax policy. Many rich people are aware that there isn't much in tax policy likely to hurt them, and some even know why, though it's enough to know that the rich are never taxed into poverty or even the dreaded middle class.

     Warren thinks money comes from rich people, a little less fiercely than Bernie and a little less stupidly than a Repub ''''"job creator"'''. To me it looks like money goes to rich people and rich means that.
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Madiel

I'm a relatively wealthy person. I'm annoyed when I'm taxed less.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

drogulus

Quote from: Madiel on October 06, 2019, 01:36:36 PM
I'm a relatively wealthy person. I'm annoyed when I'm taxed less.

     

     For years I paid my people extra so they wouldn't do that kind of business

     
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Karl Henning

Quote from: Madiel on October 06, 2019, 01:36:36 PM
I'm a relatively wealthy person. I'm annoyed when I'm taxed less.

This is a Christian nation: God wants us to amass material wealth.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Madiel

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on October 06, 2019, 04:19:58 PM
This is a Christian nation: God wants us to amass material wealth.

I know you're being ironic, but we could spend pages unpacking what's wrong with both halves of that sentence!  :laugh:
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

JBS

Quote from: Florestan on October 06, 2019, 01:05:23 AM
Yes, and the same applies to "liberal".  :)

That's because the reference point for the term has changed.

In the 19th century, the liberals were people who held the economic and political views we now call freemarket, small government, capitalist, libertarian. They were anti-capitalists, but coming from a different point of view than those who were the forerunners and founders of socialism.
The liberal ideas slowly gained ascendancy in the 19th century, until they became the standard position political conservatives took, at least in the Anglo-American sphere. In recognition of this, many people use the term "classical liberalism" to distinguish it from modern liberalism of the Left. It is now represented in its purest form by people like George Will, the Never Trumpers.

However, what the 19th century would call "conservative" did not disappear. It allied itself with classical liberalism, but not always peacefully and equally. It is best represented now in American politics by Trump's supporters.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

JBS

Quote from: Muzio on October 06, 2019, 10:18:59 AM
CNBC youtube video...5 minutes long...

"Elizabeth Warren is running as an advocate for the middle class and a critic of the wealthy. But the senator has amassed some wealth of her own too. Warren and her husband Bruce Mann's tax returns and Senate financial disclosure forms show the couple is worth millions. Here's where all that money came from..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=309&v=3qW1PrlqBUM

(When I tried to use the Flash controls, the finished page said, "Plug-in not supported.")

Let's see, what political figure hasn't released his tax returns ? Isn't he named Donald Trump?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

JBS

Quote from: Todd on October 06, 2019, 05:56:24 AM

I believe this is a false equivalence, as well as just generally illogical and inane.  It doesn't matter, of course. 

I have no problem with the endless prattling on this forum on matters political.  No, it is a source of free entertainment, as lefties virtue signal endlessly and simultaneously carry on about their superior intelligence and knowledge on every topic under the sun.  It's especially amusing when non-Americans discuss American politics.  All the while, nothing changes.

Just curious.

I realize you think you'll be fine while America's political system and power disintegrate around you. But have you, loving parent that you are, ensured that your children will likewise be insulated in a world where  Chinese currency has become the global standard, and even basic services like police and water can't be guaranteed against civic default?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Todd

#693
Quote from: JBS on October 06, 2019, 05:19:49 PM
I realize you think you'll be fine while America's political system and power disintegrate around you. But have you, loving parent that you are, ensured that your children will likewise be insulated in a world where  Chinese currency has become the global standard, and even basic services like police and water can't be guaranteed against civic default?


I've insulated my children by teaching them to mock, mercilessly as needed, and dismiss alarmist types and to approach changes in the world system with a more calculating eye.  For instance, I have made sure to tell them to not fall prey to an outlook that requires the next seventy years to be like the last seventy years, with a hegemon reaching global dominance, but rather to understand that the world is in the process of reverting to a multi-polar world where several great powers will compete in a manner as in centuries and millenia past.  (Hence the need to destroy the EU; better to deal with multiple smaller powers than one effectively big one.)  I fret not about Chinese currency achieving the same degree of significance that the US dollar had and currently has.  Also, I'm not worried about default in a monetarily sovereign nation.  Individual tax authorities may flail about, but that's always been the case.  In addition, I've taught my children to appreciate the value of two oceans and a powerful nuclear arsenal.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

SimonNZ

Its strange you don't hear that on Sesame Street.

Todd

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Madiel

Quote from: Todd on October 06, 2019, 05:45:08 PM
In addition, I've taught my children to appreciate the value of two oceans and a powerful nuclear arsenal.

This kind of feels like the nationwide equivalent of "stay off my lawn".
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

JBS

Quote from: Todd on October 06, 2019, 05:45:08 PM

I've insulated my children by teaching them to mock, mercilessly as needed, and dismiss alarmist types and to approach changes in the world system with a more calculating eye.  For instance, I have made sure to tell them to not fall prey to an outlook that requires the next seventy years to be like the last seventy years, with a hegemon reaching global dominance, but rather to understand that the world is in the process of reverting to a multi-polar world where several great powers will compete in a manner as in centuries and millenia past.  (Hence the need to destroy the EU; better to deal with multiple smaller powers than one effectively big one.)  I fret not about Chinese currency achieving the same degree of significance that the US dollar had and currently has.  Also, I'm not worried about default in a monetarily sovereign nation.  Individual tax authorities may flail about, but that's always been the case.  In addition, I've taught my children to appreciate the value of two oceans and a powerful nuclear arsenal.

A dysfunctional political system will negate most of those advantages including monetary sovereignty.

Look I am Jewish. I've seen everyone from Assyria onwards strut their stuff across the stage and disappear. But I am also American, which means I think American hegemonship a good thing...or more precisely a thing that is good for me. And if America can not maintain its status as hegemon indefinitely I want at least a situation where America is not reduced to the status of a has been power...which, if your desired goals are realized, is just where we will be.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

drogulus

   
     
Quote from: JBS on October 06, 2019, 05:19:49 PM
Just curious.

I realize you think you'll be fine while America's political system and power disintegrate around you. But have you, loving parent that you are, ensured that your children will likewise be insulated in a world where  Chinese currency has become the global standard, and even basic services like police and water can't be guaranteed against civic default?

     Russia has an oil curse economy the size of Italy. China is the biggest factory in American history. The EU is on a pseudo gold standard.

     China has a strong military until it fights. They can't even take Taiwan. Yes, they are a real threat and can do enormous damage to several counties before being completely destroyed.

     It would be a boon to the U.S. if we could arrange a little more as if multipolarity, sort of like the European and Asian alliance system. Where should we put it?
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drogulus

Quote from: JBS on October 06, 2019, 07:37:27 PM


Look I am Jewish. I've seen everyone from Assyria onwards strut their stuff across the stage and disappear. But I am also American, which means I think American hegemonship a good thing...or more precisely a thing that is good for me. And if America can not maintain its status as hegemon indefinitely I want at least a situation where America is not reduced to the status of a has been power...which, if your desired goals are realized, is just where we will be.

     Insulate yourself from such notions or be mocked. American fascism is an inevitable reversion to Confederate family values because nothing ever changes.
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