And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[JBS]

Big Pharma, insurers, hospitals team up to kill Medicare for All

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0168851013001759

I will only add that MfA, as proposed, will actually do little to bring down drug prices. The main reason we have high drug prices is that generics have a hard time getting approved here, in large part because Big Pharma is able to manipulate and outright abuse the regulatory and patent processes against them. (Canada has lower drug prices. Canada also allows a bunch of generics not approved here.) Reform on that front all by itself will bring prices down. MfA doesn't seem to do anything about it. Giving the government power to negotiate drug prices, which  MfA does, merely means the drug producers will have an easier time, since they will need to cut a deal with only one entity, and not cut multiple deals (with individual insurance companies) like they do now.

I was going to post that link from Sciencedirect, but opted for the Skeptical Human link because it seemed to have more data and more comparative discussion. And also I thought Poju would be less likely to ignore information from a progressive site...apparently I was too optimistic about his capacity for self inflicted ignorance.

[71 dB]

What ads are you talking about?

I have yet to see a single TV ad advocating against medicare for all.  In fact, the only ads I have seen are those by Democratic candidates promoting one or another version of  health care reform, and ads from unidentifiable groups wanting to pressure Congress to increase funding for Medicare.

I posted this a few days ago:

The BIGGEST Threat To Medicare for All

https://www.youtube.com/v/_SOTYmWZ4Vg

Over one million in Iowa alone it says... 

[71 dB]

I will only add that MfA, as proposed, will actually do little to bring down drug prices. The main reason we have high drug prices is that generics have a hard time getting approved here, in large part because Big Pharma is able to manipulate and outright abuse the regulatory and patent processes against them. (Canada has lower drug prices. Canada also allows a bunch of generics not approved here.) Reform on that front all by itself will bring prices down. MfA doesn't seem to do anything about it. Giving the government power to negotiate drug prices, which  MfA does, merely means the drug producers will have an easier time, since they will need to cut a deal with only one entity, and not cut multiple deals (with individual insurance companies) like they do now.

I was going to post that link from Sciencedirect, but opted for the Skeptical Human link because it seemed to have more data and more comparative discussion. And also I thought Poju would be less likely to ignore information from a progressive site...apparently I was too optimistic about his capacity for self inflicted ignorance.

Maybe that's so difficult, but Bernie proposes $200 ceiling per year. Above that government pays. Big Pharma's ability to manipulate the market can be decimated changing the law + medicare for all means they have to negotiate with the goverment. That's what keeps prices down in other countries.

[JBS]

I posted this a few days ago:

The BIGGEST Threat To Medicare for All

https://www.youtube.com/v/_SOTYmWZ4Vg

Over one million in Iowa alone it says... 

You do realize that the Iowa caucuses are a month away? [Feb 3 to be exact] Hence the ad buys in Iowa.

The biggest threat to Medicare for All stems not from the health care industry, but from the fact that it won't do what it promises. Of course, the Young Turks need to distract from that fact, so they scare you with the "Oligarchy" bogeyman.

And of course there are other reasons to oppose Bernie. His housing proposal would completely screw up the housing and rental markets, impose federal control on what has always been a local issue in the US (meaning under state and city control, not national), and probably increase the number of homeless people as its main side effect.

[JBS]

Maybe that's so difficult, but Bernie proposes $200 ceiling per year. Above that government pays. Big Pharma's ability to manipulate the market can be decimated changing the law + medicare for all means they have to negotiate with the goverment. That's what keeps prices down in other countries.

Wrong. What keeps prices down is the availability of generics. IOW capitalist free market competition. Big Pharma manipulates things here to limit availability of generics. They abuse the government's control of drug approval to keep generics from being approved. MfA won't do anything about that. Price negotiation is window dressing.

But you seem incapable of understanding that simple fact.

You also seem incapable of understanding that $200 figure is just a campaign promise, and has little chance of getting through Congress.

[71 dB]

Wrong. What keeps prices down is the availability of generics. IOW capitalist free market competition. Big Pharma manipulates things here to limit availability of generics. They abuse the government's control of drug approval to keep generics from being approved. MfA won't do anything about that. Price negotiation is window dressing.

But you seem incapable of understanding that simple fact.

You also seem incapable of understanding that $200 figure is just a campaign promise, and has little chance of getting through Congress.

Big Pharma manipulating things is not a law of nature. Politicians don't want to do anything about it because their are bribed not to. What you don't seem to understand is Big Pharma can ask high prices because the buyers have low position of negotiation. Medicare for all would changed that creating a superbuyer (the government) with high position of negotiation. The government can change laws and import drugs anywhere from the world. This means Big Pharma must keep prices down to sell anything. It's the same oligarchic bribery that has prevented single payer healthcare from happening in the US and made it possible for Big Pharma to manipulate and abuse government power. Do you think medicare for all is all Bernie Sanders would do? No, he fights ALL corruption.

Of course $200 figure is just a campaign promise but if you fight for it you may get $500 ceiling, but if you don't fight at all you gain nothing. Similarly if you fight for medicare for all you may get public option (more people covered), but if you start negotiating with the insane Republicans from public option you get NOTHING! You dont' start negotiating from the half-point.

[Karl Henning]

Your reliance on the phrase "What you don't seem to understand" is rich.

[71 dB]

We are getting near and soon the first votes are given. New CBS poll has the following numbers:

Iowa
Sanders 23 %
Biden 23 %
Buttigieg 23 %
Warren 16 %
Klobuchar 7 %
The rest 3 % or less

New Hampshire
Sanders 27 %
Biden 25 %
Warren 18 %
Buttigieg 13 %
Klobuchar 7 %
The rest 3 % or less

Based on these figures it's totally possible (but not sure at all) that Bernie wins both races.

[JBS]

Big Pharma manipulating things is not a law of nature. Politicians don't want to do anything about it because their are bribed not to. What you don't seem to understand is Big Pharma can ask high prices because the buyers have low position of negotiation. Medicare for all would changed that creating a superbuyer (the government) with high position of negotiation. The government can change laws and import drugs anywhere from the world. This means Big Pharma must keep prices down to sell anything. It's the same oligarchic bribery that has prevented single payer healthcare from happening in the US and made it possible for Big Pharma to manipulate and abuse government power. Do you think medicare for all is all Bernie Sanders would do? No, he fights ALL corruption.

Of course $200 figure is just a campaign promise but if you fight for it you may get $500 ceiling, but if you don't fight at all you gain nothing. Similarly if you fight for medicare for all you may get public option (more people covered), but if you start negotiating with the insane Republicans from public option you get NOTHING! You dont' start negotiating from the half-point.

Generics break Big Pharma monopolies. Approve generics, Big Pharma can't ask high prices. Government "negotiation" without generics will keep prices high.  It's a simple point that you obviously can't understand.

And Bernie is only against certain kinds of corruption. If he were against all corruption, he'd be trying to break up teacher unions and government employee unions. [If that sounds harsh, consider this: lousy teachers and school administrators are hard to fire because of teachers unions. Cops who shoot people without cause get to keep their job because of teacher's unions.]

[71 dB]

Generics break Big Pharma monopolies. Approve generics, Big Pharma can't ask high prices. Government "negotiation" without generics will keep prices high.  It's a simple point that you obviously can't understand.

And Bernie is only against certain kinds of corruption. If he were against all corruption, he'd be trying to break up teacher unions and government employee unions. [If that sounds harsh, consider this: lousy teachers and school administrators are hard to fire because of teachers unions. Cops who shoot people without cause get to keep their job because of teacher's unions.]

What makes approving generics impossible under M4A?

How does teacher unions make bad cops possible? Unions are not there to make it hard to fire lousy workers. They are there to balance the negotiation power.

Bernie is one of the only one fighting corruption. Has done that for decades. If anyone fights corruption it's Bernie. So...

I am totally fed up with debating with you and other useful idiots brainwashed by corporate media. YOU ALL ARE TOO FAR GONES!! Not much better than Trump supporters!

[SimonNZ]

Ffs...turn the record over.

[North Star]

Cops who shoot people without cause get to keep their job because of teacher's unions.]

[JBS]

That's what I get for posting after a long work day.

What I meant to say was

Cops who shoot people without cause get to keep their job because of police unions.]

Police unions have a settled policy of defending their members in all case of adminstrative review, even when they clearly should not be defended.  Result is that it's much harder to  fire bad cops except in the most outrageous cases.  And even then sometimes it's not easy.

Similar dynamics happen in the case of bad teachers and teacher unions.

Result is that we have schools partially staffed by people who shouldn't be teaching, and police forces partially staffed by people who shouldn't be policing.

[JBS]

What makes approving generics impossible under M4A?

MfA does nothing to make it easier to get generics approved.  Therefore MfA does nothing to actually lower the prices of prescription drugs.
If there is a part of MfA that makes direct changes to the patent and regulatory laws involved in approving drugs, point it out to me, and I will concede I'm wrong. As far as I know, there is no such thing in MfA.  (And government negotiating prices does nothing to help, so don't bother repeating a point I've already refuted.)

How does teacher unions make bad cops possible? Unions are not there to make it hard to fire lousy workers. They are there to balance the negotiation power.

Part of that was a typo.  See my preceding post.  Unions are there to protect their members, and they often do it in a way that hurts the public.

Bernie is one of the only one fighting corruption. Has done that for decades. If anyone fights corruption it's Bernie. So...

I guess that means no one is fighting corruption! 

I am totally fed up with debating with you and other useful idiots brainwashed by corporate media. YOU ALL ARE TOO FAR GONES!! Not much better than Trump supporters!

You are the one who mistakes propaganda for facts.  You are the one who is relying on bad sources and doesn't realize it. 
I know enough to be skeptical of the MSM and all the rest.  But I also know the same skepticism needs to be applied to all sources, including the ones you mistake for truthful ones.

[Karl Henning]

I am totally fed up with debating with you and other useful idiots brainwashed by corporate media. YOU ALL ARE TOO FAR GONES!! Not much better than Trump supporters!

You don't debate, you're a bot tirelessly regurgitating the same claptrap time after time again:  That ain't debate, not even in Finland, I'll bet.

[71 dB]

Ffs...turn the record over.

I don't know what is your problem. You are from New Zealand and yet you appear as brainwashed as Americans. It's weird to me. Is Fox News all they show down there? I would have thought New Zealand has implemented many left wing ideas in society successfully so that habitants know they work.

By the way, I am not anti New Zealand. Vincent Ward is one of my favorite directors. 

[SimonNZ]

You've been asked many many times to stop telling people they're brainwashed.

That you persist in the face of these requests is the definition of " trolling".

Enough.

[SimonNZ]

More Dems face debate chopping block

"The Democratic presidential debate stage is set to shrink again next week.

Only five candidates so far have earned spots in the Jan. 14 CNN/Des Moines Register debate in Iowa: Joe Biden, Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Tom Steyer, Andrew Yang and Cory Booker will all watch from the sidelines unless they see polling surges before Friday's deadline to qualify."[...]

[71 dB]

You've been asked many many times to stop telling people they're brainwashed.

And my sources are constantly being called bad as if wanting the politicians to serve regular people instead of the top 1 % is a bad thing.

We are fundamentally divided into totally different ideologies and the result is endless name calling and feuding. Sorry, I am not for the top 1 %.
I am for the regular people! If it takes calling people brainwashed to give people healthcare, living wage, tuition free education, restore democracy, fight the climate change and end the wars then yes I will call people brainwashed. Wake up people! You are not rich! You don't have any power. You are not members of the 1 %. They have the power and they use it AGAINST YOU! I am on your side calling you brainwashed to make you wake up!

[JBS]

And my sources are constantly being called bad as if wanting the politicians to serve regular people instead of the top 1 % is a bad thing.

We are fundamentally divided into totally different ideologies and the result is endless name calling and feuding. Sorry, I am not for the top 1 %.
I am for the regular people! If it takes calling people brainwashed to give people healthcare, living wage, tuition free education, restore democracy, fight the climate change and end the wars then yes I will call people brainwashed. Wake up people! You are not rich! You don't have any power. You are not members of the 1 %. They have the power and they use it AGAINST YOU! I am on your side calling you brainwashed to make you wake up!

Your sources lie and distort  just as much as any other media outlet. That's why they are bad.
That you can't accept that fact suggests that you are the one who is brainwashed.