And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[Madiel]

I gather that at least some other Republicans agreed but baulked at removal from office as the punishment. It's unfortunate that your system doesn't provide a range of options, but then I'm not sure what other practically effective options there are.

Except for the next election. Which is why the sheer disinterest of many Americans is such an issue. But they don't have much interest in the system in general, and happily elected someone from outside the system who kind of promised to wreck it for them.

To the extent that he's drained the swamp I'd argue it's only to replace it with something worse.

[SimonNZ]

"Drained the swamp into his cabinet", as Samantha Bee put it.

Your post also reminded me of this classic:

[Karl Henning]

Of course it's a problem if an illegal activity took place. But we don't know for sure, which was the purpose of the trial.

We know, for sure; the GOP Senate was predetermined not to consider the evidence; that does not mean there was no evidence.  To the extent to which the Senate were goig tuo acquit the President no matter what, the trial was a mockery, a wing of the stinking cover-up.

[Herman]

Yeah, it's funny that in some cases people from Down Under seem to be more interested and better informed about US politics than some people in the US.

There is a justification. If Trump decides he's had enough and blows up the planet (just to see if the red button really works) people in New Zealand and Finland will notice, too.

More realistically, four more years of Trump will have disastrous effects on the environment globally. There is no dispute about that, unless you've got your head in the sand, which a lot of Trump voters do.

Greg if what is called a low-info voter (if he votes at all). Not being sure Trump committed counter-constitutional acts means you just haven't paid attention. The reason Trump wasn't convicted / removed from office is the majority in the Senate is beholden to Trump for reelection, not because of doubts about the facts, see Karl above.

[71 dB]

Breaking: Bernie Has Taken the Lead in Texas!

https://www.youtube.com/v/4mjj-QuX7NI

[greg]

Yeah, it's funny that in some cases people from Down Under seem to be more interested and better informed about US politics than some people in the US.

There is a justification. If Trump decides he's had enough and blows up the planet (just to see if the red button really works) people in New Zealand and Finland will notice, too.

More realistically, four more years of Trump will have disastrous effects on the environment globally. There is no dispute about that, unless you've got your head in the sand, which a lot of Trump voters do.

Greg if what is called a low-info voter (if he votes at all). Not being sure Trump committed counter-constitutional acts means you just haven't paid attention. The reason Trump wasn't convicted / removed from office is the majority in the Senate is beholden to Trump for reelection, not because of doubts about the facts, see Karl above.

I don't vote and I hate politics. I have more important things to work on so I don't go out of my way to pay attention to it.

You know there are other people out there who would disagree with whether Trump is guilty. Also I have an instinctual bullshit detector for people who are overly confident about stuff like this so if I did want to form an opinion about this I wouldn't listen to you or other people on here.

[71 dB]

Nevada poll (finally):

Bernie Sanders 25 %
Joe Biden 18 %
Elizabeth Warren 13 %
Tom Steyer 11 %
Peter Buttigieg 10 %
Amy Klobuchar 10 %
Other/undecided 13 %

WPA Intelligence, moe 4.8 % pts

[Karl Henning]

I don't vote and I hate politics. I have more important things to work on so I don't go out of my way to pay attention to it.

You know there are other people out there who would disagree with whether Trump is guilty. Also I have an instinctual bullshit detector for people who are overly confident about stuff like this so if I did want to form an opinion about this I wouldn't listen to you or other people on here.

Given the leeway you lavish upon Trump, your "instinctual bullshit detector" ain't much.

[bhodges]

I don't vote

Reading this makes me really sad.

--Bruce

[greg]

Given the leeway you lavish upon Trump, your "instinctual bullshit detector" ain't much.

I see going hardcore anti-Trump is actually the middle road, huh? 

Reading this makes me really sad.

--Bruce

I suspect not as much if otherwise I would have voted who the guy who isn't your guy.
(no idea who that is, just saying lol)

[greg]

Oh btw there's this channel I wanted to share with some other people that's just a hilarious parody channel of various political ideologies.

Not sure if this is a good place to share but whatever. It's only fun comedy stuff- not for education. This guy is really funny.

He has a video series of the four corners of the political compass (extremists) coming together to fight the evil Centrists.

https://www.youtube.com/user/flavacrava

[Karl Henning]

Reading this makes me really sad.

--Bruce

OTOH, given how he "pays attention" ....

[Madiel]

I don't vote and I hate politics. I have more important things to work on so I don't go out of my way to pay attention to it.

You know there are other people out there who would disagree with whether Trump is guilty. Also I have an instinctual bullshit detector for people who are overly confident about stuff like this so if I did want to form an opinion about this I wouldn't listen to you or other people on here.

So, basically... you know nothing and don't want to, and then think that anyone who actually pays attention and tries to find out things is "overly confident".

Your celebration of ignorance is not impressive.

[Karl Henning]

So, basically... you know nothing and don't want to, and then think that anyone who actually pays attention and tries to find out things is "overly confident".

Your celebration of ignorance is not impressive.

Know-nothingism is a big plus for Trumpkins.

[71 dB]

Bill de Blasio to endorse Bernie Sanders.  0:)

[greg]

So, basically... you know nothing and don't want to, and then think that anyone who actually pays attention and tries to find out things is "overly confident".

Your celebration of ignorance is not impressive.

Yeah, nice way of phrasing it to try to put me down.

Politics is not my area of focus. I don't have the time to spend on it.

A lot of people here I don't see actively trying to "find out things" but rather just spewing their perceptions whenever they get the chance. I believe a few pages back I was asking some questions. But then people quickly try to sell me on their opinions.

[Madiel]

I don't care that politics is not your area of focus. I care about your response to those for whom it IS an area of focus. Your objection to anyone actually having an opinion is frankly nonsense. What, we're all supposed to be vaguely non-committal for the sake of 'balance'?

You can argue why an opinion is wrong, but your supposed bullshit detector directed at ANYONE who reaches a firm conclusion is... well it's bullshit.

I work in the public service and live in the national capital, so what is going on in the political world is important. I don't go out of my way to specifically follow American politics, but we are one of your closest allies and what goes on over there is therefore widely reported in this country.

I don't reach a conclusion on everything, but as I've already said, the evidence that Trump put pressure on Ukraine is ample, not least because people Trump and Giuliani provided quite a bit of it. The evidence that Trump believes he is the CEO of America Inc. comes entirely from his own mouth and his own tweets. I don't have to engage in convoluted ideas or in any kind of partisan bias to talk about these things, I just have to pay attention.

And it's frankly ridiculous of you to believe that the only way to do things is to keep SUCH an open mind that everything falls out of it.

[SimonNZ]

And even if someone wanted to argue this or that about the Ukraine business the obstruction of justice charge is (or ought to have been) undeniable.

[greg]

You can argue why an opinion is wrong, but your supposed bullshit detector directed at ANYONE who reaches a firm conclusion is... well it's bullshit.

It's the tribalistic thinking that I'm talking about (groupthink), which leads to much over-confidence.

People will ignore the downsides about what they assert about their conclusions, or the implications of their ideas in action. I see the contradictory nature of this in even very popular political issues.

And also the pressure to fit into a box, which I get the sense of very much from this thread (ex. the assumption that I "must be a Trump supporter" even though I don't vote). It even happened back in the Obama days when I would tell people (mostly IRL discussions) that the accusations against him are silly.

The fact that I wish to detach from all the tribes will ultimately mean everyone will hate me, which is fine, I guess. I only like to look at things as objectively as possible. If I don't know enough about something, I won't have an opinion.

Which is also consistent about my idea of people should only be allowed to vote after a political knowledge test and an IQ test (since IQ is pattern-related, it can help in understanding effects of actions/what patterns can result after a choice). But that's another topic entirely, just an idea I've had.

[JBS]

Bill de Blasio to endorse Bernie Sanders.  0:)

Meh.  De Blasio is a progressive, so of course he'll endorse the leading progressive candidate. There's also the fact that the current mayor of NYC is not friends with the former mayor of NYC.

If someone from the Clinton/Biden wing of the party endorsed Sanders, that would be noteworthy. This isn't.