And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[JBS]

How about seeing the faults of for profit healthcare?

We see those too. And we understand that MfA would have most of the same faults, plus its own faults.

When an insurance company refuses coverage, I can go look for another company that does.
When a government bureaucrat refuses coverage, I can...do nothing because there's not another government to choose.

And government bureaucrats refuse coverage and all the rest just as quickly as insurance companies. Always remember that Bernie's promises about how MfA would work are at best fantasies. So don't take them seriously.

[71 dB]

We see those too. And we understand that MfA would have most of the same faults, plus its own faults.

When an insurance company refuses coverage, I can go look for another company that does.
When a government bureaucrat refuses coverage, I can...do nothing because there's not another government to choose.

And government bureaucrats refuse coverage and all the rest just as quickly as insurance companies. Always remember that Bernie's promises about how MfA would work are at best fantasies. So don't take them seriously.

I live in a single payer country so I know if it's a fantasy. It's not. Don't take corporate media seriously. They protect the insurance companies and Big Pharma so they can take your money.

Is fire department fantasy? It's tax funded, single payer, "fire-department for all". No, it's not, It works just like in Finland or anywhere else. Healthcare is similar and has similar thing.

[JBS]

I live in a single payer country so I know if it's a fantasy. It's not. Don't take corporate media seriously. They protect the insurance companies and Big Pharma so they can take your money.

You are assuming that the US version would work similar to Finland's?  Don't. The US version would simply expand the current Medicare system.

You are fixated on the idea of corporate profits.  You seem to think that's the root problem.
It's not. The root problem is millions of Americans not getting affordable high quality health care. Once you understand that corporate profits are not relevant to that problem, you will understand why MfA is one of several possible solutions, and generally the worst.

[71 dB]

You are assuming that the US version would work similar to Finland's?  Don't. The US version would simply expand the current Medicare system.

You are fixated on the idea of corporate profits.  You seem to think that's the root problem.
It's not. The root problem is millions of Americans not getting affordable high quality health care. Once you understand that corporate profits are not relevant to that problem, you will understand why MfA is one of several possible solutions, and generally the worst.

The US is a richer country than Finland so it can have a BETTER single payer system. Medicare becomes better when it is expanded and properly funded (now it's not). Corporate profit is BIG problem in services like healthcare because insane incentive (deny care to make profit). It depends what works. That's why the US is pretty much the only country with for profit healthcare. It works poorly. Leaves people without care, costs more etc. US has it because of utter corruption and brainwashed people. Healtcare is not commodity. It's not coffee. Poor people need it as much as rich people. That's why rich people need to pay more for it so poor people have it too. That's the idea of social democratic single payer healthcare. You are NOT RICH!!! When do you understand that??? YOU ARE NOT RICH!!! So you BENEFIT!!!

Anyway, I should not continue. Waste of TIME!!!!!

[Mirror Image]

To you Biden is god. Why that is is beyond me unless you are a member of the 1 % elite. Biden serves them, not the 99 % Bernie is for them.

You have it wrong per usual. I'm not a fan of Biden's, but he has a greater chance of becoming president than any of your socialist cronies. I'm more of a moderate that has conservative leanings (in some cases more than just a leaning). Give it up, Bernie's finished. He's a washed up politician with radical ideas that aren't right for the US, which is why he hasn't been considered as a candidate for president. He's a nut job who has been wallowing in the same burrow for the past 40 years. He's a joke and Socialism doesn't work now just like it didn't work in the past. Go listen to some Tangerine Dream and kick back with a cold one. You'll be alright.

[Herman]

What the hell are you talking about? Who should I support? Nobody?

Nobody.

[Florestan]

Who should I support? Nobody?

[71 dB]

You have it wrong per usual. I'm not a fan of Biden's, but he has a greater chance of becoming president than any of your socialist cronies.

Based on what? He suffers from cognitive decline. He doesn't have solutions. You have your head in the sand if you don't see that. Nobody knows what happens now that we have corona crisis, but he is weak as hell as a candidate. Just as Hillary was. The corporate media has kept silent about Biden's weaknesses, but Trump/Reps won't. It will be constantTara Reade/Ukraina until Biden's support which is weak default support ("most electable myth"+Obama nostalgy) of begin with is gone. Corona may save Biden, but then what...? Oh yes, oligarchy continues... ...nothing changes and after Biden we get Trump 2.0 just as we got Trump after Obama because Obama didn't change things enough bieng a centrist hack he is. Remember, for the establishment/corporate media four more years of Trump is not that bad. Bernie would be bad. This was all along about stopping Bernie, not Trump. Oligarchs are fine with Trump.

I'm more of a moderate that has conservative leanings (in some cases more than just a leaning). Give it up, Bernie's finished. He's a washed up politician with radical ideas that aren't right for the US, which is why he hasn't been considered as a candidate for president. He's a nut job who has been wallowing in the same burrow for the past 40 years. He's a joke and Socialism doesn't work now just like it didn't work in the past. Go listen to some Tangerine Dream and kick back with a cold one. You'll be alright.

It's not my fault your parents made you are conservative. It doesn't mean I am wrong. It means you are. The US needs badly social democratic ideas and it it not my fault you can't see it because of your parent's conservatism. I live in a social democratic country. I KNOW it's not socialism. It's well-regulated capitalism with socialistic ideas where they work. Your country has sosialism too: Fire department for example. Also corporate socialism: Corporations just got $4.5 TRILLION. That's not capitalism. US is corporate socialism for the rich and individual capitalism for the rest. So, if you are against socialism start asking why Exxon Mobile, one of the most profitable companies in the World gets $4 billion every year of tax payer money?

Bernie is not radical. He is the true moderate. He's policies are the moderate ones. He himself is to blame for not calling himself with the correct labels. What he proposes is the normal stuff around the world. Every other developped country has single payer healthcare. That's the Normal position. US has the insane radical system. It is very radical that not everybody are covered or can't afford healthcare, because everybody needs it. So, Bernie is the true moderate and Biden is the radical one wanting to keep up oligarchy that works only for the top 1 %. That is ver radical. If you call Bernie a joke it only tells about how ideologically wrong you are. I am here to tell you that. I don't know much, but you know much much less.

[71 dB]

The turnout in US elections is very low, because people have seen the politicians don't work for them. It doesn't have to be like that.

[Que]

The turnout in US elections is very low, because people have seen the politicians don't work for them. It doesn't have to be like that.

Are you still talking US politics? 

Q

[71 dB]

Are you still talking US politics? 

Q

Unfortunately. This is like trying to stop smoking. 

[Karl Henning]

Nobody.

Or, whichever one he could actually vote for.

[André]

Unfortunately. This is like trying to stop smoking. 

Which is why your credibility is nil. Broken promises over and over abain...

[71 dB]

Which is why your credibility is nil. Broken promises over and over abain...

I make this kind of promises only to myself. I don't need to promise other people anything. If you think I have promised you something you are mistaken.

[71 dB]

Or, whichever one he could actually vote for.

Well I do vote in Finnish elections (most of the time the Green Party), but I can also support foreign politicians even if I can't vote in those elections. Bernie is by far the best candidate in this race in my opinion and I support him. Tulsi Gabbard was perhaps the second best followed by Andrew "UBI" Yang and Elizabeth "snake" Warren and then maybe Marianne Williamson/Tom Steyer/Bill deBlasio. These candidates actually had some sort of vision for the country other than just keeping the status quo going. The rest have been corporate sell outs who went full on defending the establishment when they needed cash* for their campaign. 

* except Bloomberg who has more money than the donors combined, but he is a Republican hack thinking you can buy election in democracy and pretending to be a Democrat just to run against Trump.

[71 dB]

Then unless you're masturbating verbally, there's no need to post it onto a forum, imbecile.

Do you understand what a forum is?  Are you quite a perfect idiot?

You are topping yourself Karl. You call me an imbecile and an idiot in the same post. Ok, I don't mind because I have stopped taking you seriously. I'm now convinced you have something wrong between your ears. Even if I promise something only for myself, I can still make it known on a forum so other people know what I am promising myself, what I am trying to do! ¿Comprende?

[ritter]

Guys...just stop paying attention to the bavard insupportable. He's lowering the level of the forum with his ravings. Let his obsessive ramblings (and his insincere calls for pity)  go unanswered.

[71 dB]

If people here were not so anti-Bernie I would't need to defend him so much. In fact I was stupid enough to think most members here understand why Bernie is the man and support him so I can stay away. Didn't happen. My jaw dropped on the floor when I realized how anti-Bernie this place is. People write here as if this was MSNBC: Anti Trump and anti Bernie at the same time. People here look as clueless as Whoopie Goldberg, except people here are not multimillionaires and members of the top 1 % like Whoopie. So, I can understand why Whoopie is out of touch and clueless. She can afford that. She is fine no matter what. What I don't get is why you are out of touch and clueless. You are NOT fine no matter what. A medical bill can bankrupt you!

[Karl Henning]

A small group of Bernie Sanders' top aides and allies - including his campaign manager and his longtime strategist - have encouraged the independent senator from Vermont to consider withdrawing from the presidential race, according to two people with knowledge of the situation.

The group includes campaign manager Faiz Shakir and Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., a top Sanders surrogate and ally, according to the people, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe sensitive private discussions.

Sanders himself has become more open to the prospect of dropping out, according to one of the people with knowledge of the situation and another close ally, especially if he suffers a significant defeat in Tuesday's Wisconsin primary, which polls suggest Joe Biden will win handily.

Beyond Shakir and Jayapal, longtime strategist Jeff Weaver has privately made a case that exiting the race more quickly and on good terms with Biden would give Sanders more leverage in the long run, according to one of the people; the other said Weaver has used a light touch in presenting his case. Weaver and Jayapal did not return calls and messages seeking comment. Shakir declined to comment.

[JBS]

If people here were not so anti-Bernie I would't need to defend him so much. In fact I was stupid enough to think most members here understand why Bernie is the man and support him so I can stay away. Didn't happen. My jaw dropped on the floor when I realized how anti-Bernie this place is. People write here as if this was MSNBC: Anti Trump and anti Bernie at the same time. People here look as clueless as Whoopie Goldberg, except people here are not multimillionaires and members of the top 1 % like Whoopie. So, I can understand why Whoopie is out of touch and clueless. She can afford that. She is fine no matter what. What I don't get is why you are out of touch and clueless. You are NOT fine no matter what. A medical bill can bankrupt you!

Let me ask you this
Would you be okay with the national government deciding who you can sell your house to and what price they pay?

One of Bernie's proposals would do that, in the name of fair housing.

Bernie wants the government to increase its intervention and control of large areas of life and the economy. It's not just health care. In fact, MfA is the least objectionable part of his platform. Bernie would leave the average person with less control over their life. His ideas, like progressivism in general, are anti-populist and pro-elitist.  If you really were against the 1%, you would oppose progressivism, because it's actually just another form of oligarchy.  Biden would give people more control over their lives than Bernie would. Which is why Biden is better than Bernie.

We understand Bernie. Because we don't have the leftist biases you have, we see him differently. But you are do blinded by your biases you can't even see why we think you are wrong about him. You are the one that is clueless.