Author Topic: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020  (Read 301468 times)

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Offline Dowder

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4240 on: May 14, 2020, 02:41:38 PM »
Higher wages increase purchasing power of regular people
What JBS just said. Mandating higher wages will also raise the prices for goods and services, eroding the purchasing power and making the wage increase meaningless for most people.   

Quote
= more jobs higher minimum wages don't really reduces jobs. It's a right wing lie, because the rich want to take home all the profits and give nothing to the workers.
Economic history defies this. Increased profits usually meant that the workers got a larger share and their standard of living improved in general. Minimum wage laws have been shown to be counter productive, a market distortion that winds up hurting the low skilled the most. If you really love the poor don’t embrace policies that only make them poorer and further disenfranchised. 
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4241 on: May 14, 2020, 02:48:00 PM »
Increased profits usually meant that the workers got a larger share and their standard of living improved in general.

Except that for much of the last two decades, workers haven't been getting the profits.  71 dB does have a point.

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Offline Dowder

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4242 on: May 14, 2020, 02:52:00 PM »
Except that for much of the last two decades, workers haven't been getting the profits.  71 dB does have a point.
Depends which country you are referencing.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline JBS

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Offline Dowder

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4244 on: May 14, 2020, 02:58:19 PM »
The US
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
I don’t think that is necessarily the fault of the market. Central bank, tax, trade and immigration policy all influence that.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4245 on: May 14, 2020, 03:04:14 PM »
I don’t think that is necessarily the fault of the market. Central bank, tax, trade and immigration policy all influence that.

The market is an abstract concept that refers to all the individual decisions sellers and buyers make. Policies are not, and to the degree thar they funnel assets to a certain segment, they distort the market.

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Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4246 on: May 14, 2020, 03:05:48 PM »
What JBS just said. Mandating higher wages will also raise the prices for goods and services, eroding the purchasing power and making the wage increase meaningless for most people.   
Economic history defies this. Increased profits usually meant that the workers got a larger share and their standard of living improved in general. Minimum wage laws have been shown to be counter productive, a market distortion that winds up hurting the low skilled the most. If you really love the poor don’t embrace policies that only make them poorer and further disenfranchised.

Does stuff become free if people work without pay?
Of course not. Labor costs are only part of overal costs, profit margins etc.
That's why prices go up less than the purchasing power.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 03:07:37 PM by 71 dB »
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
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Offline Dowder

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4247 on: May 14, 2020, 03:10:28 PM »
The market is an abstract concept that refers to all the individual decisions sellers and buyers make. Policies are not, and to the degree thar they funnel assets to a certain segment, they distort the market.
Which is why less government interference is usually better and in the end more equitable.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Dowder

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4248 on: May 14, 2020, 03:12:08 PM »
Does stuff become free if people work without pay?
Of course not. Labor costs are only part of overal costs, profit margins etc.
That's why prices go up less than the purchasing power.
From memory, 70% of costs are due to labor.
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline 71 dB

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4249 on: May 14, 2020, 03:13:41 PM »
Depends which country you are referencing.
In this  thread I am talking about US.

Except that for much of the last two decades, workers haven't been getting the profits.  71 dB does have a point.

Wages have stagnated for 40 years while productivity has skyrocketed. The oligarchs (the famous 1 %) took pretty much all the gains. If the minimum wage had gone up with productivity it would be at least $20 so in that sense the left demanding $15 living wage isn't unreasonable.
Spatial distortion is a serious problem deteriorating headphone listening.
Crossfeeders reduce spatial distortion and make the sound more natural
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Offline André

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4250 on: May 14, 2020, 03:52:29 PM »
Which is why less government interference is usually better and in the end more equitable.

Except it’s the opposite. When policies allow the funneling of assets on a one way track, the result is anything but equitable.

Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4251 on: May 14, 2020, 04:07:54 PM »
Except it’s the opposite. When policies allow the funneling of assets on a one way track, the result is anything but equitable.

In fact, we're all saying the same thing. What Dowder calls government interference is those policies you and I refer to.
Even 71 dB agrees, although he puts it more dramatically when he talks about oligarchs and the 1%.  But it's those policies he's referring to.

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Offline André

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4252 on: May 14, 2020, 04:09:53 PM »
In fact, we're all saying the same thing. What Dowder calls government interference is those policies you and I refer to.
Even 71 dB agrees, although he puts it more dramatically when he talks about oligarchs and the 1%.  But it's those policies he's referring to.

I get it. Thanks !

Offline JBS

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4253 on: May 22, 2020, 07:52:01 AM »
There is reason to believe Tara Reade...committed fraud, perjury, and possibly a few other things.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/21/tara-reade-biden-expert-testimony-274460

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Offline Todd

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4254 on: May 22, 2020, 07:56:15 AM »
#EtTu
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Offline drogulus

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4255 on: May 22, 2020, 08:11:56 AM »
    The main point of "interference" by government is the promotion of money driven markets, done by its purchases of goods and services by the currency thus provided. The value of the currency is maintained within a range largely by the tax return, which grows as the economy does.

     There is no such thing as nonintereference in a currency by the issuer of it. The idea is incompatible with the history of the most successful government program ever, capitalism.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 08:14:35 AM by drogulus »
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Offline Dowder

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4256 on: May 23, 2020, 05:05:06 AM »
Quote from: Joe Biden
“Well, I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black."

https://apple.news/Ai-SSzkf9QoOddKL8S7W2jg

Amazing that an 80 year old “liberal” white guy can say something like this and some of you here ignore it while you blather on about “Trump racist, Trump bad, blah blah blah.......”
”But what is government but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”~~James Madison, Federalist 51

Offline Todd

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4257 on: May 23, 2020, 05:17:29 AM »
Democrats have settled on Biden because he can win.  Biden has said multiple racist things throughout this career, and during each of his three runs for president.  In prior races, Dems used those statements against him.  Here, for obvious reasons, Dems will look the other way.  Just like they have taken to attacking Tara Reade, a behavior that is clearly reprehensible if a Republican does it and would (and has) invite Democrat scorn and derision.  Joe Biden is a terrible person.  That's a fact.  Ask Anita Hill.  Dems are willing to accept him as their next president.  It is always worth repeating that if it weren't for double standards, Democrats would have no standards at all.

Many young Dems are not so quick to forget or forgive or accept.  A good number of young progressive men and women do have a problem with Biden.  He will have problems controlling his party.  For instance, Biden took only two-thirds of the Dem vote in the Oregon primary, and it was this week.
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Offline Baron Scarpia

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4258 on: May 23, 2020, 05:26:56 AM »
https://apple.news/Ai-SSzkf9QoOddKL8S7W2jg

Amazing that an 80 year old “liberal” white guy can say something like this and some of you here ignore it while you blather on about “Trump racist, Trump bad, blah blah blah.......”

I would categorize it as a gaffe, but I would not categorize it as offensive. I think what he was trying to get across is "Trump has been so offensive to black people in words and actions that it is unlikely a typical black person would support him." Of course, since I am not a black person my viewpoint is not the most relevant. It remains to be seen if Biden has offended black supporters, of if it is only his haters that have taken offense on behalf of black people.

Offline Todd

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Re: And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020
« Reply #4259 on: May 23, 2020, 05:46:00 AM »
I would categorize it as a gaffe, but I would not categorize it as offensive. I think what he was trying to get across is "Trump has been so offensive to black people in words and actions that it is unlikely a typical black person would support him." Of course, since I am not a black person my viewpoint is not the most relevant. It remains to be seen if Biden has offended black supporters, of if it is only his haters that have taken offense on behalf of black people.


As good a self-serving rationale as any.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

Everything dies - Alien Bounty Hunter, The X-Files

Everyone dies - William Barr, United States Attorney General