On The Hunt

Started by Todd, August 30, 2019, 03:07:42 PM

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staxomega

Quote from: Jo498 on October 05, 2019, 12:03:58 AM
Gulda can be straightforward and fast to a fault, but I think the effect is often exhilarating (therefore I like the first movement of his Waldstein, the rest not so much, but I am probably on Mandryka's side that neither that movement nor the sonata are among my favorite Beethoven, regardless of who plays). Of the late ones op.106 and 111 are the best, IMO.  I would have to re-listen to his op.31. I recall the first one as hilarious because the slow movement is played more like a parody. According to some older notes I also liked his op.31/3 and found that e.g. the dynamics and shadings in the trio of the 3rd movement are very carefully obeyed.

Years ago when I more frequently followed along with a score, I was surprised that Gulda is overall quite precise and more nuanced than one would expect. He is no colorist, and maybe sometimes too fast for some nuances, but he does play very close to the scores and I find that he overall shows a "naturalness" of playing that is hard to describe but I don't mean mere "unfuzziness" but a positive quality of having the music flow naturally, regardless of tempo.

More exhilarating than even Gulda in the opening movement of the Waldstein is a live recording of Josef Hofmann from the 30s.

I love that documentary on him "So What?", from everything you see of his personality you would expect he would play like an eccentric but he is the complete opposite with all the classical recordings of his that I've heard.

Todd

Having done a sort of sub-set of American interpreters, I figured I should try something different: a shootout inside a shootout!  Based on all of my prior listening, I know who I like among here and now pianists, and who rates in my first and second tiers.  Thus, I decided to have a shootout of the best and brightest of today's pianists.  I decided to exclude late career titans like, say, Pollini, though I did include Peter Takács – no spring chicken – just because.  My selection criteria were entirely self-indulgent and lacking in objective, scientific merit, for those who concern themselves with such things.  Anyhoo, time to get going:




Kazune Shimizu.  Quick, clean, fairly light in the Allegro, Shimizu zips through, making sure that the Alberto bass is clean 'n' clear without being obtrusive.  And them trills.  And them forte chords.  Everything sounds just so.  The Scherzo is just so-er.  Not rushed, but most definitely not slow, its tempo is just right, and Shimizu delivers on the forte outbursts.  It's serious and fun.  Shimizu plays the Menuetto at a quick pace, coming in under four minutes, but not only does the playing not sound rushed, it flows and sounds lovely and relaxed in the outer sections, with just enough bite in the Trio.  The Presto is quick and light in demeanor, though that should be taken to mean that Shimizu doesn't wallop out some of the passages, because he does, and he has a nice, growly bass at times.  An absolutely top-notch version.





FFG.  The overall timing of the Allegro is similar to Shimizu, but FFG is more about flexibility.  He uses more rubato, plays around with dynamics more, and injects a greater sense of playfulness.  There's real spontaneity.  (It helps that the recording is live.)  FFG plays the Scherzo with oodles of mischievousness, and blurs his playing to create a sly sound, which is punctuated by the forte chords.  It's all a jolly good joke!  Then FFG delivers an absolutely gorgeous, slightly melancholy, though still light Menuetto.  The Trio is more pointed and potent, though scale is more intimate.  FFG then delivers a high speed Presto that is energetic and relentlessly forward moving, but in a good-natured way.  Another top-notch version, though maybe - and it's just a maybe - not as top-notch as Shimizu. 





Andrea Lucchesini.  Lucchesini, like FFG, offers a degree of flexibility in tempo and rhythm rather more noticeable than Shimizu, but the Italian keeps his personal touches within narrower bounds.  His lovely tone, unfailing lyrical style, exemplary control, and wide and perfectly controlled dynamic range all help rather nicely.  The Scherzo boogies right along with rhythmic brio and powerful fortes.  Lucchesini delivers gorgeous playing in the outer sections of the Menuetto and more tension in the trio, and then a galloping, dynamically wide ranging, and vibrant Presto, with even more spontaneity than FFG's.  (It's another live take.)  Another high-end take, though not quite up the prior two versions.





Daniel-Ben Pienaar.  Pienaar goes for a lengthy Allegro, which allows him the maximum amount of flexibility in tempo, which, though some individual passages are fast and jittery, is never really rushed or especially fast.  Pienaar instead focuses on emphasizing specific phrases and uses personal rubato and accenting at will.  It's idiosyncratic, and while the playing doesn't flow as well as from some others, it all sounds, if not natural, than at least contrived in a fun and stylistically appropriate way.  The Scherzo differs from most others in the extensive use of rubato, but otherwise is more or less falls within normal interpretive bounds.  The Menuetto is fairly typical in the outer sections, with a leaner, harder sound in the Trio.  In the Presto, Pienaar plays with his fast and jittery style, and he plays in a way to suggest laughter, to superb effect. 





Yusuke Kikuchi.  Kikuchi starts with one of the quickest Allegros out there, and it's meticulously executed.  Oodles of energy and drive; rhythmic swagger; fun phrasing; clean articulation; nifty dynamics: it has it all.  It seems a bit more superficial than Shimizu, but the dashed off feel doesn't hurt a thing.  Kikuchi follows that with one of the jauntiest, funnest Scherzos around, with left hand playing so good, so clear that almost all other versions seem underprepared.  Kikuchi keeps it quick in the Menuetto, imparting a slight sense of urgency to the playing while keeping it beautiful in the outer sections, and light and playful in the Trio.  The Presto is turbo-charged, with the pianist rushing through with exemplary control and drive and articulation and more crazy good left hand playing.  The playing exhilarates.  One of the best.





Younwha Lee.  Lee takes the Allegro at a middle of the road tempo, and plays with a nice degree of flexibility.  Dynamics are wide ranging, but otherwise it's more or less a straight-forward, slightly gruff take on the movement, which works well.  Sound is a bit edgy and bright, which also works well.  The Scherzo is a rollicking good time, with everything well within normal bounds.  (A rather noticeable edit kind of annoys, but that happens.)  The Menuetto offers unaffected, lyrical outer sections paired with a punchy Trio, and the Presto is perfectly paced, energetic, superbly clear, and a jolly good time.  Lee's recording comes close to being a perfect straight-ahead version.





Yu Kosuge.  Kosuge starts off her Allegro a bit broadly and with slurred chords, and then she proceeds to play with a degree of flexibility in tempo unsurpassed by anyone, and her dynamic gradations, especially at the quieter end of the spectrum, aided by some of the best engineering of any cycle, are superb.  Her rhythmic sureness, her light, articulate Alberti bass, her perfect accenting, and her continuous forward momentum yield an irresistible open.  Kosuge takes a full 5'40" to play the Scherzo, but not only does it not sound slow, it more or less bops right along at an energetic pace, with striking dynamic swings.  A few passages are taken more slowly than normal, typically right before forte outbursts, which simply serves to amplify the contrasts.  The Menuetto is slow and lovely (too lovely maybe?) in the outer sections and bold in the Trio, while in the Presto, Kosuge again pulls off the trick of playing with a broad overall tempo, but keeping things bopping along.  Here, the effect is a bit more obvious, and never more so than when she uses dramatic, almost operatic pauses.  The super well prepared and executed version is one of the best.





Peter Takács.  An academic's turn.  And another recording on a Bösendorfer, this time in fully modern sound.  What one gets in the Allegro is playing underpinned by beefy lower registers, and slightly tart upper registers, with the pianist taking the no-nonsense approach of Lee.  While there's ample energy and boogie, there's also an analytical air to the proceedings.  Just an observation.  The Scherzo benefits from the deep, weighty Bösendorfer bass, and Takács moves things along in a steady, if not rushed fashion.  The Menuetto sounds flowing and lovely, and again, the piano adds some extra heft to the playing in the Trio, adding to the allure.  The Presto is another rollicking, bass rich movement.  Takács delivers another no-nonsense reading for this group of recordings.

As expected, versions from first and second tier cycles all fare very well.  Some are tip-top.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

JBS

Interesting that of eight pianists, three are Japanese and a fourth (Lee) is also East Asian.  Is the pianist community of the Orient truly that strong in talent now?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Todd

Quote from: JBS on October 06, 2019, 05:23:28 PMIs the pianist community of the Orient truly that strong in talent now?


Yes.  You might want to hear both Lim brothers.  Dong Min Lim has recorded some extremely fine Beethoven.

It is worth noting that none of the Asian pianists cracked my personal top ten among complete cycles (only Italian Lucchesini and South African Pienaar do from this group), making me think maybe I should figure out how to perform a full cycle comparison in a reasonable timeframe.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Brian

#64
Quote from: Todd on October 06, 2019, 05:34:17 PM

making me think maybe I should figure out how to perform a full cycle comparison in a reasonable timeframe.
I've listened to a lot of Yusuke Kikuchi traveling - it's on my phone - and it just absolutely and consistently kicks butt. It's taken over a lot of my 21st century listening over from FFG and Lucchesini, in fact, but that might be because of my personal taste. (Clean, virtuosic, on the livelier side, but not too dramatic or stern.)

Edit: the adjective clean here means both comparatively free of eccentricity (especially re rubato) and with the kind of sparkling passagework that makes it sound like he's having fun.

Todd

Quote from: Brian on October 06, 2019, 06:45:46 PM
I've listened to a lot of Yusuke Kikuchi traveling - it's on my phone - and it just absolutely and consistently kicks butt. It's taken over a lot of my 21st century listening over from FFG and Lucchesini, in fact, but that might be because of my personal taste. (Clean, virtuosic, on the livelier side, but not too dramatic or stern.)


Kikuchi's is one of the best cycles of this century so far.  I'm hoping that changes!  (If it ever does, I'll die long before he is relegated to mediocre status.)
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd




Sebastián Forster.  Somewhat quick overall, with a pronounced staccato, there's often a sense of relentless forward drive, but it doesn't sound particularly secure.  Some passages are slowed down, perhaps to navigate through them, and while high enough energy, there's little sense of fun.  The Scherzo fares a bit better, being pressed a bit.  There's still something of a lack of fun.  In the Menuetto, Forster plays with a nice combination of reasonable lyricism and halting bite - the melody more or less flows, but the accompaniment starkly and unpleasantly contrasts throughout.  The Trio is reasonably clean but faceless.  The Presto is just slightly relaxed in tempo and displays the relentless forward drive.  A shorter way to summarize the sonata is quick-ish, stiff, and ugly.  Blech.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Que

#67
Quote from: Todd on October 03, 2019, 04:48:43 AM


Ronald Brautigam.  Memories of Brautigam's cycle is that he tends to play fast.  The Allegro here doesn't really live up to that memory.  It's normal in tempo.  Brautigam does sound a bit rushed and gruff in certain passages, but overall it's run of the mill.  Except for the instrument, which I dislike.  The Scherzo sounds similar, though Brautigam does rev up some of the playing more than a bit and hammers out some forte passages.  It's here that one of the things I'm not wild about surfaces: the comparatively unrefined use of ancient instruments.  As Paul Badura-Skoda and András Schiff both demonstrate, more subtlety can be extracted from the instruments than Brautigam opts for.  This lack of subtlety is one of the traits of Brautigam's modern piano recordings, too.  This becomes more of an issue in the Menuetto, where Brautigam's super-speedy ways merges with lack of nuance to create an unappealing approach.  Things go better in the Presto, where speediness pays musical dividends, but the overall recording is not for me.

A spot on description of Brautigam's Beethoven, I would say.

Have you heard Paul Komen?



Q

Todd

Quote from: Que on October 07, 2019, 12:33:46 PM



Not yet, but since I'm caught up on cycles (Martino Tirimo's new one released on Friday notwithstanding), I should have time to circle back during next year's anniversary year.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



Dino Ciani.  It's always unpleasant to revisit this cycle.  The sound is so atrociously bad that one can never entirely adjust.  Even so, through the crap sound, one can hear that Ciani generated a big tone that expanded in the hall.  He takes the Allegro at a relaxed tempo, and he plays with great and seamless flexibility, varying tempo and dynamics with an unvirtuosic virtuosity.  Some of the specific tempo choices might raise an eyebrow, but this is live, real music making.  Ciani then rips through the Scherzo, imparting lots of energy and a sense of fun, and knowing when to back off, and how to belt out forte with gusto.  The super-quick Menuetto flows in the outer sections and blazes in the middle, while the Presto is a high voltage affair, with towering forte playing.  Pity the dismal sound sinks what is otherwise a very fine performance.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



Robert Benz.  Benz goes for an extra-zippy Allegro, at just over eight minutes.  The sound is smaller in scale, and is characterized by peppiness, springy rhythm, and trills as good as can be got when they appear, and a "dramatic" deceleration before the snappy coda.  The Scherzo is slightly more comfortable in terms of tempo, retains the springy rhythm, adds even bolder dynamic contrasts, and more or less sounds just right.  Benz keeps the outer sections of the Menuetto light and tight and lyrical, and plays with notable power in the trio, and he ends with a Presto stylistically like the Allegro, just quicker.  Overall, better than I remember. 

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



André De Groote.  De Groote takes his time in the Allegro.  It never sounds slow, and unfolds in a nice enough fashion, with a right hand bias, though the forte passages have nice build ups.  The music just sounds too polite.  The Scherzo is peppier, but retains the politeness.  Predictably with such a style, the outer sections of the Menuetto come off well, while the Trio remains polite.  The Presto has is politely peppy.  It's not a bad recording, I can write that.

The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd





Abdel Rahman El Bacha.  In the Forlane recording, El Bacha plays the repeatless Allegro with ample energy and rhythmic snap, and in an unaffected manner.  But the lopped off music is missed.  In the Scherzo, El Bacha goes down the treacherous path of playing it slowly, and he doesn't do quite as well as some others who attempt the same thing.  His forte outbursts are well done, though.  The Menuetto is fast in the outer sections and well done in the Trio, and the Presto (like the prior three movements stripped of precious music) is reasonably quick and energetic and possessed of a nicely weighty bass, and the overall sound is a bit gruff.  Pity so much music is stripped away. 

In the Mirare recording, El Bacha corrects his music cutting ways and plays on a rather fine sounding Bechstein.  He plays the Allegro in modestly swift fashion, but allows himself a bit of breathing room in terms of tempo and phrasing, and he plays with more individuality.  While not a hard-hitting version, and a bit on the formal side, the sense of mischievousness is there, albeit in a manner akin to wearing a garish pocket square with a white dobby shirt and solid blue tie.  El Bacha again goes down the treacherous path of a slow Scherzo, and the results are better here, especially with some still somehow jittery left hand chords.  The Menuetto is stilted and sort of (purposely) anti-flowing in the outer sections, but man, EL Bacha nails the Trio.  A unique take.  The Presto has a looser feel to it and boogies along nicely.  The Mirare recording is definitely a big step up over the Forlane.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



Ikuyo Nakamichi.  Ms Nakamichi opts for a slow Allegro and a hyper-detailed, small-scaled approach, with the resplendent recording sort of exaggerating her scale.  Not exaggerated is her very careful fingerwork, her delicate trills, her seriousness.  The movement lacks a bit in the fun department.  But the meticulousness offsets it.  (I listened through cans for this one, which sort of amplifies the pianist's traits, and her generous pedaling.)  The Scherzo is a bit more puckish and dominated by a non-domineering left hand.  At times, it's as if melody and accompaniment are sort of being played free-form, and then they come together right when they should.  A Menuetto of rather formidable beauty in the outer sections and a slow, exaggerated Trio that hits the spot follows, and the piece ends with a Presto of more than ample energy and more superb clarity.  The left hand playing again manages to dominate without boxing the listener's ear; Nakamichi draws the listener in, inviting the lucky soul to enjoy what's on offer rather than blasting it out.  Very nice, and better than I recalled.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

JBS

Interesting how often "better than I recalled" is showing up in your comments. Perhaps because the first time you were listening was as part of a complete cycle? Or am I totally offbase in my reason?

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Todd

Quote from: JBS on October 12, 2019, 10:51:32 AMPerhaps because the first time you were listening was as part of a complete cycle?


That's more or less it.  Listening in the context of a complete cycle sort of groups all sonatas together qualitatively, and some cycles may be mediocre or only reasonably good overall with a few solid or better interpretations mixed in.  Some cycles can be quite unpleasant overall, which makes great recordings stand out, like Kuerti's blah cycle with its breathtakingly great 31/1, but that is rare in my experience. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



Aldo Ciccolini.  Some slightly quick phrases launch an Allegro of standard timing.  Ciccolini favors a pretty clean staccato style, poking out the left hand playing much of the time.  He plays with nice energy and humor and plays the forte passages decently.  While the approach is not as unaffected as Ian Hobson, it's more or less no-nonsense.  The Scherzo has nice dynamic contrasts and is no-nonsense, but it lacks a bit of energy and drive.  The Menuetto is somewhat laid back in the outer sections and a bit heavy and dull in the Trio, though Ciccolini does not disappoint in the Presto, which is all energy and fun.  Not a great version overall.


The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

Todd



Gerard Willems.  With the big ol' Stuart & Sons piano adding Bösendorfer heft and Fazioli color, Willems starts off with a straight-ahead Allegro of perfectly middle of the road tempo.  The playing includes ample wit and humor, with nice dynamic contrasts (it better have these!) and a sense of relaxed fun.  Willems takes a slightly leisurely overall tempo in the Scherzo, though he does zip through some passages.  The piano accentuates some of the dynamic contrasts, which fortunately are not overdone even though they could have been.  There are places where it sounds like Willems pauses to reposition his hands, or at least he decides to make the playing seem blocky.  The Menuetto sounds lovely in the outer sections even though there's no special emphasis placed on the music, and the Trio is bold, and the Presto is too, which, when combined with the instrument, makes the not especially fast movement sound faster than it is played. 
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya

aukhawk

I had to Google "Stuart & Sons piano"

Todd







Rudolf Buchbinder.  In the Teldec recording, Buchbinder starts off with a dry, quick, jittery Allegro with somewhat compressed dynamics.  The energy level is super-high, the demeanor a serious approximation of fun, and the approach classical.  The Scherzo ramps up the style, and adds a bit more dynamic oomph to the mix.  The Menuetto and Trio are both much slower than the preceding two movements, with the Trio punctuated by even wider ranging dynamics than the Scherzo, and the Presto returns to the style of the first two movements.  A superb rendition.  The RCA version is similar in terms of tempo in the Allegro, but it's more serious, too serious, and sounds just rushed through in comparison.  The Scherzo has a bit more flexibility, but not much, and the Menuetto and Trio are a bit dour in comparison, though some of the Trio has some nice scale.  The Presto, while having nifty left hand playing and wider dynamics, and being the best movement in this recording, is still lower energy and less compelling than the Teldec take.  The Unitel version is closer to the Teldec in terms of overall style and feel, especially in feel.  There's a more relaxed sense about the playing, though Buchbinder keeps things quick and vibrant.  Same for the Scherzo.  Same, too, for the Menuetto and Trio.  Hell, same too for the Presto, which has a lighter overall touch and sounds like great good fun.  This version lacks the last bit of pianistic pizazz of the Teldec studio version, but is high grade stuff.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya