What are you listening 2 now?

[Mirror Image]

I'd love to hear both those SA-CD Japanese sets - both enduring favourites in whatever format.  But ouch those prices are eye-watering!  I'll have to stick with the latest 'standard' remasterings - you are right they are both very good if not as good

Yes, both of these sets were quite expensive. The Strauss Kempe set being the most expensive in comparison to the Berglund, but as I wrote earlier, they were worth the money in the end.

[Mirror Image]

NP:

Debussy
Suite bergamasque
Kocsis

[Wanderer]

I'm not a native French speaker but I think Catalogue des oiseaux would translate as Catalogue of the birds, implying possession, ie the catalogue belongs to the birds --- an absurdity. Catalogue d'oiseaux otoh would translate as Catalogue of birds, implying birds are listed in the catalogue --- Messiaen's intention, obviously. And I also think d'oiseaux is a contraction of de oiseaux. Notice the difference between des and de.

I'm sure the native French speakers will clarify the issue.

Also, "Catalogue des oiseaux" would imply that we are talking about specific birds.

As I remember the rule, the article (here: les) is omitted after de and it is therefore "Catalogue d'oiseaux" because oiseaux specifies the meaning of catalogue (the list is specified as a bird list).

[Wanderer]

On the other hand there's a thing by Mesaien called Livre du saint sacrement (and not Livre de saint sacrement -- which sounds terrible even to me!)

It's Livre du Saint-Sacrement, because it refers to one specific sacrament (Book of the Eucharist).
A hypothetical Messiaen book for all sacraments, plural, would still be Livre des sacrements (and not de sacrements), because there are only seven sacraments.

[amw]

My problem with Schiff (assuming we're talking Decca recordings, not the more recent ECM) is that the sound tends to be very recessed and mellow. Which is all very well when Schubert is being mellow, but it detracts from some more extrovert works. The one that really frustrated me a while ago (and led me to start looking at alternatives) was D.850.

Endres is giving me slightly mixed feelings. D.625 had a good last movement, but not so sure about the rest. Right now, the first movement of D.784 is proceeding fabulously, and giving me the little bit of extra drive that I sometimes miss from Schiff.

I do like the Endres Schubert set a great deal, much more so than the Schiff Decca set, although not as much as the Schiff ECM recordings (but then choice of instrument plays a large role there). I do however consider both pianists to be working within a fairly similar style.

For alternative views I would potentially want to sample: Paul Badura-Skoda RCA (modern instrument) or Arcana (period instruments), Michel Dalberto, Mitsuko Uchida, Alfred Brendel, Malcolm Bilson, Wilhelm Kempff, the less than complete Christian Zacharias, the 1823-1828 sonatas by Imogen Cooper, potentially also someone like Elisabeth Leonskaja (for a complete set) or Sviatoslav Richter (for an incomplete one); a lot depends on how important the incomplete & early sonatas are to you. It's unlikely that you'll enjoy all of these options, I don't, but it'll establish directions to go in.

[vandermolen]

Vaughan Williams: Symphony No.4
Sir Anthony Pappano/LSO
Turned up today.
Sounds like a very fine performance, although I find the Barbican acoustic rather dry and prefer something more cavernous as in Bryden Thomson's or Paavo Berglund's recordings:


PS The performance of the 6th Symphony (recorded on the day before the first lock-down) is the greater performance IMO but maybe that's because I much prefer the 6th Symphony to the 4th, which has lost some of its appeal to me.

[Mandryka]

It's Livre du Saint-Sacrement, because it refers to one specific sacrament (Book of the Eucharist).
A hypothetical Messiaen book for all sacraments, plural, would still be Livre des sacrements (and not de sacrements), because there are only seven sacraments.

Hmmmmmm

There are exactly 13 birds in the catalogue.

[Karl Henning]

Stravinsky

CDs 16 & 17
The Rake's Progress

My feeling for this has been that I admire it more than love it (although there are passages, of course) Not ready to etch that in stone, but the needle did not move, this week.

[Mandryka]

Just got this message on a language forum

Ce [catalogue des oiseaux] n'est pas incorrect, mais ça a effectivement un sens un peu différent. Avec "catalogue des oiseaux", ont a l'impression de quelque chose de plus exhaustif, comme si le catalogue recensait tous les oiseaux. On l'utiliserait probablement plus facilement si on précisait le type d'oiseaux ("catalogue des oiseaux des champs" ou "catalogue des petits oiseaux", par exemple).

"Livre de saint sacrement" serait très étrange, car d'une manière générale "saint sacrement" est presque toujours précédé d'un article défini, on ne dit pas "un saint sacrement" mais "le saint sacrement".

The thing that makes it hard for me is that I was taught at school that the article makes a substantive general - so you would say l'eau est moins bonne que le vin - water (in general) is less good than wine (in general) - or Le lundi je vais au marché - Mondays I go to the market.


The more I think about it, the more the article is strange - what's it doing in ça, c'est du Beethoven! Probably best not to think about it.

[Madiel]

I do like the Endres Schubert set a great deal, much more so than the Schiff Decca set, although not as much as the Schiff ECM recordings (but then choice of instrument plays a large role there). I do however consider both pianists to be working within a fairly similar style.

For alternative views I would potentially want to sample: Paul Badura-Skoda RCA (modern instrument) or Arcana (period instruments), Michel Dalberto, Mitsuko Uchida, Alfred Brendel, Malcolm Bilson, Wilhelm Kempff, the less than complete Christian Zacharias, the 1823-1828 sonatas by Imogen Cooper, potentially also someone like Elisabeth Leonskaja (for a complete set) or Sviatoslav Richter (for an incomplete one); a lot depends on how important the incomplete & early sonatas are to you. It's unlikely that you'll enjoy all of these options, I don't, but it'll establish directions to go in.

Thanks. Some of those were already on the list, some weren't.

From what I've heard I think Imogen Cooper is excellent but yes, she focuses firmly on the last 6 years (twice, even). I don't really care about incomplete sonatas but I would rather like to have the full ones in the D.500s and 600s.  Brendel manages to miss some of them as well I think. Uchida's box set has almost exactly the repertoire I would want but I find her style too wayward for comfort - in the sonatas I tried, some things were good but then she'd bring everything to a screeching halt to have a 'moment'.

[Wanderer]

Hmmmmmm

There are exactly 13 birds in the catalogue.

No matter. "Catalogue d'oiseaux" refers to a bird catalogue as a specific category of catalogue, not a catalogue comprised of x, y, z number of contents/birds.

[Mandryka]

No matter. "Catalogue d'oiseaux" refers to a bird catalogue as a specific category of catalogue, not a catalogue comprised of x, y, z number of contents/birds.

OK, I see what you're saying now. Not easy to do in real time for an English speaker, this stuff, as always the problem's doing it at the speed of thought.

[Mirror Image]

Vaughan Williams: Symphony No.4
Sir Anthony Pappano/LSO
Turned up today.
Sounds like a very fine performance, although I find the Barbican acoustic rather dry and prefer something more cavernous as in Bryden Thomson's or Paavo Berglund's recordings:


PS The performance of the 6th Symphony (recorded on the day before the first lock-down) is the greater performance IMO but maybe that's because I much prefer the 6th Symphony to the 4th, which has lost some of its appeal to me.

The problem with the LSO is indeed their Barbican Hall. I never understood why they don't relocate to another hall or just build a new one. But almost all of the LSO Live recordings I've heard have sounded lifeless.

[Que]

[Wanderer]

Just got this message on a language forum

...on ne dit pas "un saint sacrement" mais "le saint sacrement"

And that's because le Saint-Sacrement is the Eucharist, not an undefined holy sacrament ("un saint sacrement").

[Harry]

A fine recording that is!

[pjme]

Just got this message on a language forum

The thing that makes it hard for me is that I was taught at school that the article makes a substantive general - so you would say l'eau est moins bonne que le vin - water (in general) is less good than wine (in general) - or Le lundi je vais au marché - Mondays I go to the market.


The more I think about it, the more the article is strange - what's it doing in ça, c'est du Beethoven! Probably best not to think about it.

This may help: https://youtu.be/054MD3i3RDE

du Beethoven : de la musique de Beethoven, ça (cette sonate, ce quatuor) est de la musique composé par Beethoven. Donc, c'est du Beethoven. J'écoute souvent du Beethoven.

https://youtu.be/6edld_vN7VA

PDF article on Messiaen and Catalogue d'oiseaux: https://www.chandos.net/chanimages/Booklets/PT6670.pdf

[mabuse]

The more I think about it, the more the article is strange - what's it doing in ça, c'est du Beethoven! Probably best not to think about it.

I think so, Mandryka 
It seems you are searching a specific rule witch doesn't exist... Sometimes the use of a language is hesitant.

...

Thanks to T.D. and you, this week I discovered this fascinating box:
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,26305.msg1350841.html#msg1350841

[SonicMan46]

Raff, Joachim (1822-1882) - Piano Music, V. 3, 4, & 6) w/ Tra Nguyen - after Harry's recommendation of the 6-CD box, I decided to listen first on Spotify and enjoyed - look on BRO HERE and found the three volumes shown below for $5 US each - reviews can be found on the Grand Piano Website for those interested.  Dave

   

[Mandryka]

Donc

I was following you until I came to this little word.