Started by milk, October 27, 2019, 03:25:22 PM
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Quote from: vers la flamme on February 23, 2020, 04:10:28 AMIs there much love for these performances of Handel's Keyboard Suites from a live performance at a French festival in 1979? I'm not sure who organized this concert, the idea of Richter playing half, Gavrilov playing the other half. Just seems unusual to me. But the results are brilliant. A bit too much background noise, but this is Richter we're talking so that is to be expected.
Quotebecause one can voice so transparently on the piano, it is possible to take theWeckmann Canzon III (4) at a faster tempo than would make aural sense on organ or harpsichord, discovering a new palate and vibrant textures forthis work, replete with repeated notes.
QuoteAnd new expressive vistas openup when one challenges oneself to execute the double notes and figuration work in Sweelinck's Mein junges Leben with a fleetness and lightness thatstill conveys a sense of fragility even as the writing becomes denser – virtually impossible on the organ or harpsichord
Quote from: Mandryka on April 15, 2020, 12:50:31 AMI couldn't help but wish that Daniel-Ben Pienaar had chosen a more characterful piano, he's compromised by the extremely pure and even sounds of the instrument.
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 15, 2020, 01:08:06 AMIsn't it so, that the playing of renaissance and baroque music on the piano more than anything else reveals, how much character the sound of the piano lacks compared to the sound of harpsichord and organ (period instruments the most). And that this may be one of the reasons why pianists tend to compensate for this fact by using a lot of pianistic measures. And then there is the problem with the tuning. Most pianists use equal tuning, which kills this music. I do not know how Pienaar has got his piano tuned BTW.
QuoteThat is just the normal reality for musicians without major name recognition. At the same time I have realised my time to be productive as a musician is now, while my technique and ideas are there; so I can't wait for those 'ideal' opportunities to arise - especially since I just do not have the stomach or talent for the kind of self-promotion that seems the order of the day now - but must do the work now, even though it may be less than ideal...
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 15, 2020, 12:37:35 PMI'm in complete agreement except for the tuning part - I'm actually quite skeptical that a different, unequal tuning will change much at all. I'd still rather listen to the music on, say, a good organ tuned in equal (e.g. Alkmaar Larenskerk) than on a piano tuned in 1/4 comma meantone. The sound of an organ or harpsichord is just often much more intrinsically interesting than that of a piano.... But it will be a great experiment!I do think that Sweelinck works quite well on piano, equal or not for some reason.
Quote from: amw on April 15, 2020, 01:07:14 PMI do sometimes play Sweelinck on piano but usually not when anyone else is around and I still have mixed feelings about it. Some pieces obviously work better than others.
Quote from: amw link=topicUnequally tuned pianos usually just end up sounding out of tune ime, unless you're using something "radical" like pythagorean just intonation. Piano resonance is always a little out of tune to begin with even in equal temperament)
Quote from: Mandryka on April 15, 2020, 04:12:44 AMAnd he's replied, saying basically that he'd love to work with a better piano and with different tuning but he can't because he just doesn't have the money to make it happen
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 15, 2020, 01:37:47 PMI think it is the equal tuning which makes it sound a little out of tune. And the fact that a piano often gets out of tune a little bit rather shortly after being tuned. There is a recording of the WTC by Hans Georg Schäfer, who plays on a piano tuned in a modified mean tone temperature - I do not precisely recall which one, maybe a Kirnberger tuning - but this piano sounds not out of tune at all.
Quote from: bioluminescentsquid on April 15, 2020, 07:59:01 PMThe Sweelinck chromatic fantasy actually doesn't use 1/4 meantone, since it requires d-sharp rather than the e-flat that strict 1/4 uses (one of the reasons why Dirksen thinks that it is meant for harpsichord, rather than organ, since retuning a harpsichord is much easier than retuning an organ).
Quote from: bioluminescentsquidAlkmaar, there's actually some controversy on whether it was in equal after 1721. Ibo Ortgies thinks that it was still in 1/4 comma meantone then.
Quote from: amw on April 15, 2020, 07:05:47 PMYes, I should have said "especially in equal temperament", I've never worked out exactly what's wrong with the equal tempered piano but octaves, sixths and sevenths all sound too narrow...That said a lot of unequal temperaments don't seem to work that well either, at least in the few recordings I've heard. I don't know the Schäfer Bach.
Quote from: (: premont :) on April 16, 2020, 02:56:42 AMThe fact that the piano for each note has three or two strings which are hit simultaneously, and which must be precisely in tune, means that the piano sounds out of tune, if just one of these strings changes minimally, which isn't an uncommon occurrence.. This will be the same whatever temperament one choose. In equal tuning octaves of course are tuned pure. I think the more annoying quality of equal tuning is the large thirds and the narrow fifths. And the more or less colorless quality of harmonies, which is best "appreciated" on an organ.
Quote from: amw on April 16, 2020, 04:24:16 AMI knew the thing I was thinking of wasn't imaginary—it's the Railsback curve https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_acoustics#The_Railsback_curveWhen a piano is tuned in perfect equal temperament the octaves & any larger interval really sounds too narrow due to inharmonicity in the strings, so a compromise whereby the lower strings are tuned more flat and the upper strings more sharp is necessary. And tuners don't always get that right I guess. (Digital pianos and MIDI likewise.) Of course fifths and minor thirds/major sixths sound ugly as well (major thirds sound fine, at least in my experience) due to the equal temperament but at least with piano repertoire from Beethoven onwards that's taken into account by the composers. Whereas I guess if I were playing Louis Couperin etc on piano I'd want a meantone tuning
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