Author Topic: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...  (Read 1762 times)

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Offline Madiel

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Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« on: November 30, 2019, 03:35:07 PM »
...it just removes the evidence.

Someone made an unjust criticism of gay people, and now a moderator or someone has come along and wiped the slate and the person who made the unjust criticism never has to acknowledge the injustice of it.

Now let me say that I do not think that the person in question is a "homophobe". Nevertheless what was displayed was an unfavourable view of how gay rights groups respond to the rights of others, based on a faulty premise. And more concerningly a determination to dig in on that faulty premise and not consider it was faulty.

And it is important to me as a gay person that faulty premises about gay people are corrected and not allowed to flourish. Pretty much the whole basis of how we are badly treated is different degrees of faulty premises.

Deleting a thread does not prevent faulty premises about gay people from flourishing. It actually allows them to go on being thought, unchallenged. I simply do not understand why the moderators of this board keep believing that erasing things solves a problem. It just buries it.

It's as if you believe that erasing the writing erases the memories and thoughts of people, when all it does is hinder people from accuracy.
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Offline JBS

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2019, 08:52:42 PM »
I agree with what you say, but...
The usual method here seems to be to delete the posts involved in that exchange, and/or lock the thread. I don't remember an entire thread being deleted. Perhaps the problem was with the entire thread, and not your particular argument?

It certainly would be helpful if the moderator(s) who deleted the thread  explained why deleting the thread was necessary, or at least appropriate.

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Offline dissily Mordentroge

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2019, 09:26:03 PM »
..
Deleting a thread does not prevent faulty premises about gay people from flourishing.
Problem is we don’t know if that’s why the thread was deleted.
Some may imagine this is a storm in a teacup but I’ve too often seen events such as this destroy a forum.


Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2019, 09:37:06 PM »
I don’t think thread deletion is an answer to anything. If anything, just lock the thread, especially if the moderators felt it was getting out-of-hand.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2019, 02:31:39 AM »
That was actually a thread I started and I am greatly puzzled by its deletion. Yesterday evening when I last viewed it there was nothing to warrant its deletion. Things probably got nasty afterwards. I, too, would like to hear an explanation from the mods.

And now that I think of it, there is another entire thread which has been deleted, the one started by Carlo Gesualdo about discrimination of Nordic-looking people or something like that. I wonder what happened there, too.

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2019, 02:44:37 AM »
And now that I think of it, there is another entire thread which has been deleted, the one started by Carlo Gesualdo about discrimination of Nordic-looking people or something like that. I wonder what happened there, too.

Wait, has THAT been deleted now?

When I saw it (and that was the first time I'd so much as seen it), it was locked. Not deleted.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2019, 02:46:03 AM »
unquestionably another case of discrimination against nordic looking people and their threads... ;)
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Offline Que

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2019, 02:48:50 AM »
Let's see. A non-musical thread in a music form. Two increasingly vitriolic posters. Perhaps if the posts had been a bit...more respectful, this wouldn't have been an issue It seems to me we are blaming the wrong the people...

Spot on. So anyone interested in the reason why, there it is.
Of course the thread could have been locked instead of being deleted, as a "service" to those who like to keep recharging negative energy by reading back all the vitriolic agitation. But that didn't happen.

Hope we can keep things pleasant around here - sh*t like this tends to spill over to other threads and spread around the forum.

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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2019, 02:52:13 AM »
unquestionably another case of discrimination against nordic looking people and their threads... ;)

It's not particularly funny. He has started another thread and is complaining about being silenced. And apparently with some justification?

I just cannot fathom why moderators on this forum think they have no accountability for this kind of behaviour. On the forum I spent some years moderating, our accountability was taken very seriously. There was a strong expectation that the reasons behind decisions were announced.

As I said previously, full-on deletion was a matter of last resort and occurred very rarely. The one time I can specifically remember it happening was when someone linked to sites that were borderline advocating pedophilia and we felt we had legal obligations to remove it (as well as other forum members being upset). And I'm quite sure even THAT decision was documented and explained.

But here... well good luck having any kind of explanation or record or any kind of way of assessing whether there was some merit to what was done. It goes against basically every principle of good management you've ever heard, but that's the way they roll here on GMG. It's not just the music that's from a long time ago, it's the mindset.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2019, 02:52:49 AM »
Hope we can keep things pleasant around here - sh*t like this tends to spill over to other threads and spread around the forum.


How's that working for you right now?

You don't solve the sh*t. You just bury it. Actually stepping in to SOLVE it would be too much work for you. If there were concerns there were several days during which you could have stepped in. Nope. Let's just delete and hope that works.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 02:58:50 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Que

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2019, 03:01:14 AM »
How's that working for you right now?

Despite our best efforts some people keep on going, and seem to thrive on their anger and negativity.

Which is a pity.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 10:31:05 AM by Que »

Offline Jo498

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2019, 03:08:45 AM »
I was/am also a moderator at another forum and I cannot understand why you don't understand such decisions, Madiel.
It is usually impossible to find a solution that doesn't offend anyone, so if you managed this at this other forum, more power to you.
But moderators are not professionals and it is perfectly fine to limit the time and energy put into moderating, not the least because some people are simply stubborn or cantankerous and would take way too much time if one had to moderate them closely. It's not their task to "solve" things, merely to keep the forum manageable. So such decisions are not perfect, but often there is no better (or sometimes no viable) alternative. Especially if something concerns topics that are both beyond the core of the forum and highly controversial, it seems perfectly o.k. not to try to carefully tend a hornet's net.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2019, 03:10:31 AM »
Despite our best efforts some people keep on going, and seem to thrive on their anger and negativety.

Which is a pity.

You expect me to be accountable for my words.

It would be nice if this was reciprocated by you having some accountability for your actions. But I have yet to see any moderator here display any accountability except if they are dragged into it by me making a fuss. Ironic, isn't it?

And no, none of this is making me "thrive". I'm not going to waste my time explaining the details of just what it's like to deal with the feelings created by situations like this or why it matters to me as much as it does, because frankly I don't think you give a shit about my welfare. But I'm not thriving.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:28:31 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2019, 03:11:50 AM »
I was/am also a moderator at another forum and I cannot understand why you don't understand such decisions, Madiel.

I don't understand them because no-one ever comes and explains them. Do you not grasp that this is what I'm saying? Reasons for decision are a fundamental part of people accepting decisions even if they're decisions they don't agree with.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2019, 03:19:57 AM »
It's not just deleting material either.

It also happens with moving material. Again, I get there might be limited circumstances where moving material is appropriate. It happened on the forum I used to moderate. A moderator would announce that a conversation was being moved at the time they were doing it. Usually the announcement would include the fact that moderators had had a discussion before deciding, though in some cases where it was obvious something was not in the place forum rules required a moderator would do it on their own and the language would show it was not a collective decision.

Here, you just discover that posts have moved somewhere. No-one tells you why. No-one puts on record that they did it. It just magically occurs. A conversation might have been progressing on one thread for several days and then it's not there any more. You have no way of knowing whether something happened in the latest posts, or whether it just took the moderators several days to notice, or whether they spent time discussing before acting. Because no-one ever, ever tells you a thing unless you make a song and dance about it.

And yes, I'm that person that will make a song and dance about it. Because having reasons for decisions is such a fundamental thing that in some contexts it's a legal requirement, and even when it's not it's widely accepted as a good principle.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2019, 03:22:07 AM by Madiel »
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2019, 03:43:24 AM »
Reasons for decision are a fundamental part of people accepting decisions even if they're decisions they don't agree with.

This.

And I have to say that, having actually read the whole exchange between you and Ken, from the first to the last posts, there was nothing vitriolic about it. Just strong disagreement expressed in clear terms. And as long as none of you complained about that, and furthermore there was no third party involved, let alone injured, deleting the thread just because the mods didn't like the tone of the posts is in my opinion a greatly exaggerated move.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2019, 03:48:59 AM »
This.

And I have to say that, having actually read the whole exchange between you and Ken, from the first to the last posts, there was nothing vitriolic about it. Just strong disagreement expressed in clear terms. And as long as none of you complained about that, and furthermore there was no third party involved, let alone injured, deleting the thread just because the mods didn't like the tone of the posts is in my opinion a greatly exaggerated move.

If my memory serves me correctly (and that's all I have to go on now  :D ::) ), you're the person who created the thread.
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2019, 04:01:04 AM »
If my memory serves me correctly (and that's all I have to go on now  :D ::) ), you're the person who created the thread.

Yes, you remember correctly. I stated in the OP that it's for statistical purposes only. I was prepared to lock it myself the very moment things got nasty but I was actually pleasantly surprised that nothing of this sort happened. There were actually at least two parallel discussions going on and both straight and gay participants took part voluntarily and without any bigotry. Last time I viewed the topic, the last two posts were mine, about some experiences I had in pubs in Barcelona and The Netherlands. Anything that happened after that I had no time to see because I woke up this morning only to find out that the thread is gone.
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Offline Madiel

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2019, 11:46:04 AM »
Oh look! The problem miraculously went away by not talking about it!
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Offline Florestan

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Re: Deleting threads doesn't make me any less angry...
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2019, 11:54:53 AM »
Oh look! The problem miraculously went away by not talking about it!

Imo supressing discussion of "hot" topics is like destroying the manometer when the pressure pointer gets into the red zone.
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