Bronzing of CD's.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

My most recent bronzed CD that I received was George Lloyd's Symphonic Mass conducted by Lloyd. Didn't play or rip Does anyone know if Albany replace CDs?

You'll be fine if they are SACDs. Those only started to be made in 1998 or 1999.

Just checked mine.  They're CDs and in pristine shape.   

PD

[Harry]

I had several Albany discs that were bronzed, but never got any reply from them regarding replacements, despite several emails. And since they are out of print, I very much doubt that I will ever get them replaced.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I had several Albany discs that were bronzed, but never got any reply from them regarding replacements, despite several emails. And since they are out of print, I very much doubt that I will ever get them replaced.

That's a shame.  Perhaps they might be able to replace them with a CD-Rom at least (or a free download?)...if you ever manage to get a reply back from them.  If not and also if you particularly love these discs, keep an eye out for a used copy.

PD

[staxomega]

Just checked mine.  They're CDs and in pristine shape.   

PD

What do you think of the performances PD? Someone put up a very favorable review of them on another music board. If I'm remembering right Hough takes tempos most similar to Rachmaninoff. I will have to revisit these to see which cadenzas he plays. I think my memory of them is they didn't make my regular go to versions.

I have them as regular CDs, fortunately not bronzed.

Edit: I went back to read the previous posts on this album, I will have to take back my post about SACDs not being prone to corrosion. Very strange that it would appear on a 2004 release. In my experience discs pressed at PDO UK were the source of the major issues and I thought it was only between a set time frame, ~1989-1996 give or take a couple of years.

[vandermolen]

Warning - a friend of mine just found a bronzed Hyperion CD released in the mid 2000s. Stephen Hough's Rachmaninov concertos. He found it today and just emailed the label.

Hyperion are the only company whose CD 'bronzed' for me (a Bantock release). They replaced it immediately. I guess that there may well be others in my collection.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

What do you think of the performances PD? Someone put up a very favorable review of them on another music board. If I'm remembering right Hough takes tempos most similar to Rachmaninoff. I will have to revisit these to see which cadenzas he plays. I think my memory of them is they didn't make my regular go to versions.

I have them as regular CDs, fortunately not bronzed.

Edit: I went back to read the previous posts on this album, I will have to take back my post about SACDs not being prone to corrosion. Very strange that it would appear on a 2004 release. In my experience discs pressed at PDO UK were the source of the major issues and I thought it was only between a set time frame, ~1989-1996 give or take a couple of years.

It's been quite some time since I have listened to them, but I recall not being particularly wowed by them unfortunately.    I should give them another shot.   Must admit, the thought of turning on tube equipment with the temps that we have been having is not particularly enticing--that, plus I just spent 2+ hours working in the garden and am cooling off.

In any event, let us know what you think of them. 

PD

[staxomega]

It's been quite some time since I have listened to them, but I recall not being particularly wowed by them unfortunately.    I should give them another shot.   Must admit, the thought of turning on tube equipment with the temps that we have been having is not particularly enticing--that, plus I just spent 2+ hours working in the garden and am cooling off.

In any event, let us know what you think of them. 

PD

Ha! I feel like I can relate so much, I have to run the AC pretty hard to get two hours of listening in on the main stereo before it starts to warm up the room too much. My next venture will be paying more attention to DSP speakers and class D amps.

I am pretty certain I'd agree with your assessment on these Rachmaninoff performances. I believe of the five works Hough was best in Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini though for me it's still hard to top Reiner/Rubinstein.

edit: my favorite Hough disc is his one of all Mompou.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Ha! I feel like I can relate so much, I have to run the AC pretty hard to get two hours of listening in on the main stereo before it starts to warm up the room too much. My next venture will be paying more attention to DSP speakers and class D amps.

I am pretty certain I'd agree with your assessment on these Rachmaninoff performances. I believe of the five works Hough was best in Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini though for me it's still hard to top Reiner/Rubinstein.

edit: my favorite Hough disc is his one of all Mompou.

Let me know how your audio adventures go.    Must admit, I love the "extra" heat during the wintertime...and most importantly (of course), the sound of my system. 

I have a few albums with Hough:  his Spanish Album, Chopin - Late Masterpieces, and Piano Music by Federico Mompou, York Bowen Piano Music and that double Rachmaninov one.  Perhaps the Spanish one would be good for the incoming heatwave?

Rubinstein is always fun to listen to.   

PD

[aligreto]

I found this article on Discogs recently:


How to Look After Your CDs
February 4, 2019


Disc rot affects CDs, DVDs, Blu-rays, and LaserDiscs in different ways depending on how they're manufactured and structured. Generally speaking, disc rot occurs due to chemical reactions with the reflective layer of the disc, ultraviolet light damage, scratches that expose the delicate and corrosive layer to environmental factors, or the deterioration of manufacturing materials.

CDs are often touted as the most durable physical music format because of the lack of contact during playback, compared to vinyl records and cassette tapes. Hell, I'll admit, that with the exception of surface abrasions, I thought there was little you could do to corrupt a compact disc. Check out the BBC's Tomorrow World's totally convincing demonstration of the marvels of the new CD format:

https://youtu.be/bMp1pSVxoqw

Which is why I was caught off guard when I came across this article on disc rot on Motherboard. Great, as if it wasn't enough that my stylus is wearing out my records, and my tapes are all unspooled – now I have to worry about the degradation of my CDs as well. In fact, no one knows how long CDs can last. The answer is dependent on a number of factors, including where the disc was manufactured and how it is stored.

So why have we been treating these flat plastic donuts as an indestructible format for music and video when really they're a delicate, carefully balanced alchemy of audiovisual data?


CD Disc Rot

In the case of CDs, disc rot is the effect of oxidation of the reflective layer of the disc, resulting in what can look like bronze discoloration, or as one victim described it, "a constellation of pinpricks" in the data layer of the disc. As anyone who's suffered the misfortune of a scratched or scuffed disc CD will know, it doesn't take a hell of a lot of damage to render the disc unreadable, and once that data is gone, it's gone for good. CD degradation can be caused by mishandling or improper storage, but disc rot is typically caused by a chemical reaction with the reflective layer of the disc.


DVD Disc Rot

Though they look almost identical to CDs, DVD structure is a little different, using a plastic disc over the reflective layer. This is good news if you get a scratch on your disc as it means it's less likely to reach the reflective layer and expose it to environmental damage. However, because of this structure, they can also suffer from delamination, where layers of the disc separate. On the disc, delamination can look like a coffee stain. Poor case design has been blamed by some as the case for DVD disc rot. During playback, DVD disc rot appears as the picture pixelating or freezing in a specific spot, skipping, or again, becoming unplayable.


Are Blu-rays Safe from Disc Rot?

It seems less prevalent than CDs, DVDs and LaserDiscs, but it would be unwise to rule out Blu-ray disc rot. There are a few reports of disc rot on Blu-rays which has been described as 'small mould blooms' below the surface, rendering the disc unplayable.


Laser Rot

The name given to Laser Disc's own special brand of disc rot suggests the laser is to blame – similar to stylus wear – but again, it's just the degradation to the disc. Speckling in the video and crackling in the audio worsen as disc rot advances. It's usually attributed to oxidation of the aluminium layers by poor quality adhesives used to bond the disc halves together. Single-sided discs rarely suffer as badly as double-sided discs do.

LaserDiscs from specific manufacturers seem more likely to fall prey to laser rot. MCA DiscoVision discs are notorious for it, as well as discs pressed at Sony DADC in Terra Haute. Conversely, manufacturers like Kuraray were well known for their meticulous practices and have seen few instances of laser rot, to date.


Can I Prevent Disc Rot?

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a surefire way to prevent disc rot due to many instances appearing due to manufacturing faults. However, proper care will help from exacerbating the problem, and it's a timely reminder that your discs are by no means indestructible.

While some of the following tips are obvious, they're also often ignored. So let's take it from the top.


Tips For The Correct Treatment Of Your Discs

Handle your discs correctly, touching only the outer edges and hole in the centre. While it's probably second nature by now to be cautious with the reflective underside of discs, you should also be careful of the top, printed layer as damage to this side can also impact playback.

Store your discs in an upright position. Avoid keeping them in stacks, much like you would vinyl records. They should also be kept in a cool, dry environment.

Keep your discs in jewel or keep cases rather than paper sleeves. Anchor the disc using the anchor pin in the centre of the case. This is the best way to ensure you're preventing scratches and damage inside the case. If the anchor pin is broken, it's best to replace the case. Stick to one disc per case, and always return the disc to the case after play (e.g. don't leave it on top of the stereo)

Label discs with a water-based marker. Hard tipped pens and chemicals can be abrasive and do damage to the data on the disc.

Check the quality of the disc before you buy – especially for secondhand discs. Look out for scratches, discoloration, or what looks like pinpricks in the disc. If you're buying recordables, spring for the higher quality version.

Discs made with gold as the reflective layer are less vulnerable to disc rot, as it's a less corrosive material, though obviously, these are rarer than their (much cheaper) aluminium counterparts. And sadly, your CD-Rs and DVD-Rs are more likely to suffer from disc rot due to the type of organic dye used in recordables.


So the takeaway here is treat your discs well and they could last you a lifetime. Or they might not. I don't know anymore, this disc rot thing has thrown my whole world into chaos.




[If you would like to read the article mentioned above on Disc rot on Motherboard, and it may be worth your while, here is the link to it: https://www.vice.com/en/article/mg9pdv/the-hidden-phenomenon-that-could-ruin-your-old-discs].

[Jo498]

I think some statements are a bit misleading. AFAIK the "pinpricks" and the "bronzing" are distinct phenomena and neither is related to typical careless treatment (like allowing scratches), so scratched surfaces should be another distinct case of ruining a CD. The "classic bronzing" was a particular chemical reaction, affecting only/mostly one or select manufacturing plants around 1990 (but many different labels) and might have also have to do with the ink used in printing booklets.

Whereas the pinprick holes "starry sky" deterioration is different and I am not sure about the causes of this.

And once again, because it is counterintuitive: The label side is in general more endangered because there is no comparably thick plastic layer like on the other side, so avoid scratches etc. on both sides! Temperate dry storage, no direct sunlight and avoiding scratches are the things one can take care of oneself. And check foam inlays of older multi-sets (same for LPs!) They are a plague as they can either crumble to smelly dust or stick to discs and the removal might destroy them.

For the "disc rot" the only option is to discover it earlyish, copy the disc and probably also remove the affected disc from its case and store separately as there might be a case of chemical reaction with booklet ink, or remove the booklet.

[aligreto]

I agree on the "bronzing" effect being a different issue altogether.

I also agree with your advice because the CD is certainly not the indestructible item it was originally marketed as, particularly if one does not store or handle them correctly.

And yes, those foam inlays turned out to be a real horror show, particularly for vinyl.

[Irons]

I agree on the "bronzing" effect being a different issue altogether.

I also agree with your advice because the CD is certainly not the indestructible item it was originally marketed as, particularly if one does not store or handle them correctly.

And yes, those foam inlays turned out to be a real horror show, particularly for vinyl.

Agreed. Don't think my CD player is particularly forgiving as the odd disc is problematic with ticking noises which funnily enough is similar to noisy vinyl. I find I examine CDs with as much care as I do LP prior to purchase.