The Bernie Zombie Thread

[Florestan]

I don't really understand this post.

I think you do and I can prove it.

I do not consider the USA elections of 2020 as history yet.

Sure. For all his flaws --- or maybe in spite if them --- Biden might prove a tough nut to crack for Trump.

I was disappointed in Warren that she didn't have the guts to support Sanders, I admit that. I always think it's kind of a missed opportunity when 2 or more parties who share a lot of opinions and ideas, refuse to work or join together to make a stronger point for their shared convictions. I fear that it's just her pride that failed her in this particular case, or maybe she was only thinking about her own future career in the Dem party.

Here's my proof, I rest my case.

Politics is not about principles and ideas --- a few, or even a majority of, hopeless idealists notwithstanding --- but about power. The goal of each and every party is to get into power and stay there as long as possible. The rest is propaganda. 

[Marc]

I think you do and I can prove it.

Sure. For all his flaws --- or maybe in spite if them --- Biden might prove a tough nut to crack for Trump.

Here's my proof, I rest my case.

Politics is not about principles and ideas --- a few, or even a majority of, hopeless idealists notwithstanding --- but about power. The goal of each and every party is to get into power and stay there as long as possible. The rest is propaganda. 

Again, I must be too stupid to make a coherent story of this post and all the proof(s) it apparently delivered. It must be me for sure. But since we kissed today and I still feel heavenly because of that... I'm gonna let it pass.

[Florestan]

Again, I must be too stupid to make a coherent story of this post and all the proof(s) it apparently delivered. It must be me for sure. But since we kissed today and I still feel heavenly because of that... I'm gonna let it pass.

[Karl Henning]

Agreed.

Who could, about a dozen years ago, have thought that someone with the ideas of Sanders, might be able to bring enthousiasm in the more than respectable amounts that he has been doing? Both back in 2016 and now?
And what if Liz Warren, when she retired from the race, immediately had decided to endorse Sanders, the only other progressive candidate?

If Bernie had reached out, perhaps she might have.  Bernie's diplomacy skills are le merde.

[Karl Henning]

I don't really understand this post. I do not consider the USA elections of 2020 as history yet.

I was disappointed in Warren that she didn't have the guts to support Sanders, I admit that

She's one of my Senators, and I do not believe this was a matter betokening any lack of "guts" on her part.

[Marc]

If Bernie had reached out, perhaps she might have.  Bernie's diplomacy skills are le merde.

OK. Then it's probably pride. And one can, when asked, always hide one's pride behind "whataboutism". You don't reach out, so I won't reach out, either.

So it's gonna be Biden for the Dems then. It's perfectly fine with me, don't get me wrong. I'm not even American, so what am I doing in this thread anway?

But I always felt more related to the progressive Sanders/Warren agendas. And since they've apparently both been stubborn and proud, they might have missed the opportunity to gain a stronger support for that agenda.

[SimonNZ]

Politics is not about principles and ideas --- a few, or even a majority of, hopeless idealists notwithstanding --- but about power. The goal of each and every party is to get into power and stay there as long as possible. The rest is propaganda. 

Bull. Shit.

[Florestan]

Bull. Shit.

Are you honestly going to tell me that the goal of any NZ party is not to get into power and stay there as long as possible in a liberal democracy? I don't need an elaborate answer, a simple yes or no would suffice.

[SimonNZ]

Are you honestly going to tell me that the goal of any NZ party is not to get into power and stay there as long as possible in a liberal democracy? I don't need an elaborate answer, a simple yes or no would suffice.

You're making it sound in your previous post as though their goal is power for its own sake. Not implementing their policies towards improving the lives of their countrymen through the continued winning of elections.

[Florestan]

You're making it sound in your previous post as though their goal is power for its own sake.

Yes, you got it right, that's exactly what I'm saying/implying.

Not implementing their policies towards improving the lives of their countrymen through the continued winning of elections.

Hitler came to power in 1933 not even by winning elections. By 1939 he so greatly improved the lives of his countrymen that the average German worker at that time was better fed, homed, schooled and trained than any other average worker anywhere in the world.

The welfare of the people is a mere byproduct of the politicians' desire for power.

[SimonNZ]

Yes, you got it right, that's exactly what I'm saying/implying.

Hitler came to power in 1933 not even by winning elections. By 1939 he so greatly improved the lives of his countrymen that the average German worker at that time was better fed, homed, schooled and trained than any other average worker anywhere in the world.

The welfare of the people is a mere byproduct of the politicians' desire for power.

Bull. Shit.

[Karl Henning]

OK. Then it's probably pride. And one can, when asked, always hide one's pride behind "whataboutism". You don't reach out, so I won't reach out, either.

So it's gonna be Biden for the Dems then. It's perfectly fine with me, don't get me wrong. I'm not even American, so what am I doing in this thread anway?

But I always felt more related to the progressive Sanders/Warren agendas. And since they've apparently both been stubborn and proud, they might have missed the opportunity to gain a stronger support for that agenda.

In a perfect world, I'd prefer Warren to Biden; but I know the general electorate won't.
A President Warren (and her career is not anywhere near over) would be more effective than a President Bernie. IMO

[Florestan]

Bull. Shit.

I once had a parrot who sounded exactly like you, except he was much more funny.

[SimonNZ]

There are politicians who want power for its own sake, I'm not so naive that I cant see that. But it is absolutely not the blanket truth your cynicism paints it as.

[Florestan]

There are politicians who want power for its own sake, I'm not so naive that I cant see that. But it is absolutely not the blanket truth your cynicism paints it as.

Okay, let's play it concrete. Which is the ruling party in NZ? (I really have no idea whatever).

[JBS]

I don't really understand this post. I do not consider the USA elections of 2020 as history yet.

I was disappointed in Warren that she didn't have the guts to support Sanders, I admit that. I always think it's kind of a missed opportunity when 2 or more parties who share a lot of opinions and ideas, refuse to work or join together to make a stronger point for their shared convictions. I fear that it's just her pride that failed her in this particular case, or maybe she was only thinking about her own future career in the Dem party. But who am I to know?

She mentioned after she left the race the online abuse (and some real world abuse) Bernie supporters aimed at her own supporters, with the implication that Bernie did less than he could have done to stop it. 
She is also probably keeping an eye on the possibility of Biden offering her the VP nomination. Why burn a bridge she neither needs nor wants to burn. And if she is VP, she can probably do more for the progressive agenda than Bernie could as POTUS. (And of course the likelihood of being Biden's designated successor.)

[Florestan]

She mentioned after she left the race the online abuse (and some real world abuse) Bernie supporters aimed at her own supporters, with the implication that Bernie did less than he could have done to stop it. 
She is also probably keeping an eye on the possibility of Biden offering her the VP nomination. Why burn a bridge she neither needs nor wants to burn. And if she is VP, she can probably do more for the progressive agenda than Bernie could as POTUS. (And of course the likelihood of being Biden's designated successor.)

This is all party politics. And all party politics centers around party X getting into power and staying there as much as possible. Does anyone sincerely believe that Joe Biden wants anything else than being hailed as POTUS, the crowning achievement of his lifetiime in politics?

His only quality is that he is no Trump --- I've seen that so many times in Romanian presidential elections --- I voted not for, but against, a candidate --- and I'm really astonished that rational and reasonable people can still trust a politician --- any politician.

[JBS]

This is all party politics. And all party politics centers around party X getting into power and staying there as much as possible. Does anyone sincerely believe that Joe Biden wants anything else than being hailed as POTUS, the crowning achievement of his lifetiime in politics?

His only quality is that he is no Trump --- I've seen that so many times in Romanian presidential elections --- I voted not for, but against, a candidate --- and I'm really astonished that rational and reasonable people can still trust a politician --- any politician.

He does give a working class vibe that's more authentic than most politicians. Very few politicians would tell a voter "you're full of s---" while electioneering, and even fewer would get away with it.

Watching him on TV, I see no signs of cognitive decline. He was always prone to gaffes and bumbling. That was part of his charm, as it were. But in interviews he says all the correct things.

[Florestan]

Given the high toxicity and extreme uselessnes of these bloody damned fucking political threads, in which I sooner or later get to post things I regret the next day, I've resolved to never ever again post in any of them. This time it's for real and for good, so help me God!

[geralmar]

Bernard Sanders, U.S. Democratic primaries, 2020.

Sanders is a vile, embittered little man stuck in 1969.

Thank you.  I feel better now.