Author Topic: Coronavirus thread  (Read 293286 times)

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Offline Pohjolas Daughter

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5520 on: October 27, 2021, 05:46:26 AM »
I haven't seen statistical surveys of the background for vaccine abstaining/refusals here, it's probably a micture of reasons, including a lack of felt belonging to the surrounding community, fatalism, ignorance, general protest, and science scepticism. The lowest vaccination rates and biggest outbreaks are in the municipalities and communities west of Copenhagen centre with major immigrant populations (Ishøj, Vallensbæk, Høje Tåstrup, Tingbjerg etc). Rates are in the 60s I think among the total population there, where some other regions will reach the 70s or 80s.

We don't vaccinate children below the age of 12; around 65% of those aged 12 - 15 and aged 25 - 35 have been vaccinated, whereas those aged 15 - 25 are in the 80s.

There are currently no restrictions.
Does this sound about right in terms of what Ishøj is like?:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishøj_Municipality

PD

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5521 on: October 27, 2021, 05:58:33 AM »
Yes, the wiki Ishøj article is correct. The name comes from ancient Nordic language, meaning 'hill with roof trees'.

37.5 % of the population are immigrants, the highest percentage among all  municipalities, and it is also the one with the lowest vaccination rates and the biggest outbreaks these days. These are some of the current facts. Restrictions might be introduced only locally, since the right wing in parliament seems to be against them nationwide now.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2021, 06:18:16 AM by MusicTurner »

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5522 on: October 27, 2021, 06:10:38 AM »
Unfortunately, a rather rapid decline here, with 1871 new cased today in Denmark.

That's a lot, but sometimes the data is updated so that data from several days is added at once. 7-day average is a better indicator. Our cases varies between 300 and 1700 for this reason (they don't update so much during the weekend for example and they are getting more lazy because lets face it: The World at this point is totally fed up with this damn virus) and the average of cases per day is about 600 at the moment.

More testing is being done, but the average positive percentage among them has gone up to 2%.
In Finland it is about 6 %, but the amount of tests has declined rapidly.

Hospitalizations have more than doubled within a couple of weeks, reaching 200.
Not much different from what has happened here. We had half of the patients (about 100) a month ago. Luckily the amount of patients in intense care hasn't grown as much. They say 77 % of patients in hospitals are unvaccineted despite of most of the population being vaccinated.  :P

New vaccinations are very few, there's opposition among immigrants and the youngsters in particular. Restrictions are likely to be re-introduced very soon.

Finland indroduced corona pass 1.5 weeks ago and apparently it has motivated some unvaccined to take the vaccine, but the amount of vaccinated people growns frustratingly slowly. Immigrants and the youngsters here too avoiding the jab.  :P
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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5523 on: October 27, 2021, 07:29:37 AM »
My father will be getting his booster shot in two weeks.

Very good.
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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5524 on: October 27, 2021, 10:24:26 AM »
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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Offline Holden

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5525 on: October 27, 2021, 01:00:56 PM »
....and meanwhile, across the ditch in NZ....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/300439983/sir-russell-coutts-slams-covid19-restrictions-accuses-government-of-dictatorship

Russell Coutts is a national icon and what he is saying quite simply stacks up. What is particularly interesting is how the vaccinated are still being lumped in with those who can't or won't. It seems to make the vaccination process somewhat pointless and certainly, those who have not been jabbed and are contemplating it, must be saying "Why bother, nothing will change for me anyway." What freedoms will I be given as soon as I'm vaccinated - at this point in time - virtually none. Good on you 'Stuff' for having the guts to publish this article.
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Offline Mandryka

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5526 on: October 27, 2021, 01:43:41 PM »
Interesting model of the UK situation

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59039739
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5527 on: October 27, 2021, 03:46:47 PM »
....and meanwhile, across the ditch in NZ....

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/300439983/sir-russell-coutts-slams-covid19-restrictions-accuses-government-of-dictatorship

Russell Coutts is a national icon and what he is saying quite simply stacks up. What is particularly interesting is how the vaccinated are still being lumped in with those who can't or won't. It seems to make the vaccination process somewhat pointless and certainly, those who have not been jabbed and are contemplating it, must be saying "Why bother, nothing will change for me anyway." What freedoms will I be given as soon as I'm vaccinated - at this point in time - virtually none. Good on you 'Stuff' for having the guts to publish this article.

Groan...

I honestly had no idea who Russell Coutts is, but see from that he is a "sailing legend". An important voice in public health and pandemic management, then.


There you go: was that the reaction you were hoping for?

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5528 on: October 27, 2021, 03:54:38 PM »
Oh, the guts it required to publish that ....
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Offline Holden

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5529 on: October 27, 2021, 05:30:41 PM »
Groan...

I honestly had no idea who Russell Coutts is, but see from that he is a "sailing legend". An important voice in public health and pandemic management, then.


There you go: was that the reaction you were hoping for?

No, it's not. Coutts has experience with what is happening overseas which is certainly very different to what NZ and parts of Australia are doing and therefore has some right to comment. He's seen a different approach and one he views as working. The part that resonates with me is the dichotomous approach to vaccination. While I am a proponent of vaccination it seems that a divide between those who are and those who aren't is deliberately being created. I can understand mandating the jab for certain sections of the community but the wholesale implementation across virtually every sector of society doesn't make sense.

The only people the unvaccinated put at risk are themselves and other unvaccinated persons so if they are prepared to take  that risk then that's their prerogative. They don't pose any threat to me (as someone who has had both doses of Astrazeneca) so I don't care if I'm standing next to an unvaccinated person.
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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5530 on: October 27, 2021, 06:27:19 PM »
They also pose a risk to people who can't get the vaccination for legitimate reasons and they pose a risk to breakthrough cases for the vaccinated. And a risk to letting further variants develop that the current vaccines don't counter.

But you know this. It's all been said before. You just feel like having a stir.

Coutts has no more experience of worldwide approaches to covid than anyone with tv or the internet. Arguably even less than that given his statements.

Offline Holden

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5531 on: October 27, 2021, 11:58:01 PM »
The problem is that you and other Kiwis are caught up in the parochial bubble where you don't actually know what's going on in other countries. Does this blinker your national way of thinking? What I'm reading in your press seem to suggest just that. We have similar approaches here in Australia, and I know this first hand living in Queensland and having a brother in WA.

If you think that me posing legitimate questions is stirring up the pot then so be it. You are entitled to think that and I welcome any debate on the matter. I pose questions because I have thought about what is going on and, like you Simon, have developed my own opinions. Those opinions may be right, wrong or indifferent and I am prepared to change them if presented with data that challenges what I believe. It's the blind acceptance of the 'status quo' by the masses that concerns me.

Bottom line for me on vaccination is that everyone (apart from those who are medically compromised) should have the jab. However, the way it is being mandated around how you earn your livelihood and who issues those mandates is where some human rights issues must arise.

One point to note is the uptake of the vaccine by Maori. This is the lowest represented group in the country and there are comparable figures for our own indigenous population. Does this stem from a deep rooted distrust of the Pakeha/Australian White Fella and are the current enforced mandates making this distrust even deeper?
Cheers

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Offline SimonNZ

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5532 on: October 28, 2021, 12:08:14 AM »
The problem is that you and other Kiwis are caught up in the parochial bubble where you don't actually know what's going on in other countries.

Don't be daft.

Worldwide covid news on on the TV every night and everyone is on some form of global social media and/or online news.

Obviously.

Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5533 on: October 28, 2021, 01:03:54 AM »
That's a lot, but sometimes the data is updated so that data from several days is added at once. 7-day average is a better indicator. Our cases varies between 300 and 1700 for this reason (they don't update so much during the weekend for example and they are getting more lazy because lets face it: The World at this point is totally fed up with this damn virus) and the average of cases per day is about 600 at the moment.
In Finland it is about 6 %, but the amount of tests has declined rapidly.
Not much different from what has happened here. We had half of the patients (about 100) a month ago. Luckily the amount of patients in intense care hasn't grown as much. They say 77 % of patients in hospitals are unvaccineted despite of most of the population being vaccinated.  :P

Finland indroduced corona pass 1.5 weeks ago and apparently it has motivated some unvaccined to take the vaccine, but the amount of vaccinated people growns frustratingly slowly. Immigrants and the youngsters here too avoiding the jab.  :P

Yeah, as usual our nations are often quite comparable, except from you using the corona pass currently.

There's more political split-up here in the Danish parliament now, the Social Democrats are under pressure against any attempts at a restrictive policy, and the previous mink business/culling was done rapidly and without enough legal basis; recent investigations have discovered some muddy governmental proceedings in that respect, and now, important SMS communication between ministers and advisers has been deleted, for some not very democratically orientated reason.

Unfortunately, the right wing opposition people currently seem like a bunch of irresponsible and populist people, picking everything they've got for attacking the government, and supported by parts of the associated media. Yes, you could say it's partly their job, but some of those people would be disastrous for government, and surely cost lives, IMO, besides creating many more problems for the lower classes. I can't see any of them delivering much to have confidence in. The government has handled the virus very well IMO, and their social policy and international engagement are very good; statistics confirm all this. The only problem with the current government has been a too tough policy against immigration, including scandalous attempts at sending back Syrian refugees.

EDIT: The Prime Minister Frederiksen just said that she supports retrieving the lost SMS communication, and that she was advised to delete parts of it back then. She says it's done with al SMS communication after one month, following recommendations  from security advisers.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 03:28:02 AM by MusicTurner »

Offline Mandryka

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5534 on: October 28, 2021, 11:25:34 AM »
Your still very infectious after you've been vaccinated

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036
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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5535 on: October 28, 2021, 11:29:11 AM »
Your still very infectious after you've been vaccinated

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036

This is not news.
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Offline (: premont :)

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5536 on: October 28, 2021, 12:27:36 PM »
Your still very infectious after you've been vaccinated

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036

Yes, and this is why I in a post above wrote, that the epidemy can't be controlled, but will continue to spread among the vaccinated people. The consequence is, that people at risk - like me - are even more at risk now.
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Offline Mandryka

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Offline MusicTurner

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5538 on: October 28, 2021, 01:30:05 PM »
I think that statistics regarding this has been somewhat lacking, so it's good to have some now, even if it's just based on a few 100 cases. Would like a couple more similar surveys, but the results seem reasonably clear in this one. And it's not that vaccines don't work.

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Re: Coronavirus thread
« Reply #5539 on: October 28, 2021, 05:17:21 PM »
I think that statistics regarding this has been somewhat lacking, so it's good to have some now, even if it's just based on a few 100 cases. Would like a couple more similar surveys, but the results seem reasonably clear in this one. And it's not that vaccines don't work.

No, indeed.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
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[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
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His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot