Coronavirus thread

[Karl Henning]

Why, of course he said that, after all he has much more chances of winning now that Djokovic is out. I think his comments were totally unsportsmanship )is that a word?)

Unsportsmanlike.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Why, of course he said that, after all he has much more chances of winning now that Djokovic is out. I think his comments were totally unsportsmanship )is that a word?)

Nadal's statement in question could be taken out of context (by media or you). Nadal said "If he's playing, finally, OK. If he's not playing, the Australian Open will be a great Australian Open, with or without him."

Also he said the followings.

"I respect him as a person. Of course, a lot as an athlete. Even if I don't agree with his way to thinking about how to proceed with this pandemic."  "I really believe in vaccination...and when you make your decisions then there is some consequences...We did a lot of things together. I think positive things for our sport and I wish him well."

"What we are facing worldwide is much, much more important than tennis and tennis players...millions of people have already passed away and a lot of families are suffering the consequences of this terrible (pandemic) almost two years."

[Karl Henning]

"What we are facing worldwide is much, much more important than tennis and tennis players...millions of people have already passed away and a lot of families are suffering the consequences of this terrible (pandemic) almost two years."

Alas! All too true. Reminds me of a post-9/11 Onion headline: Americans want to care about stupid shit again.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Alas! All too true.

The guy is an intelligent guy.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

Alas! All too true. Reminds me of a post-9/11 Onion headline: Americans want to care about stupid shit again.

[Florestan]

Nadal's statement in question could be taken out of context (by media or you).

I hadn't read the whole thing and commented only on the part referred to by PD. My bad.

[Madiel]

Why, of course he said that, after all he has much more chances of winning now that Djokovic is out.

A number of other people said it as well. Including tournament organisers.

The fact is Djokovic should never have been in the country. And the end result for the tournament would be exactly the same, only no-one would be reporting much on Djokovic's absence.

Give it a few good matches and they won't be reporting on it much again.

[Holden]

A number of other people said it as well. Including tournament organisers.

The fact is Djokovic should never have been in the country. And the end result for the tournament would be exactly the same, only no-one would be reporting much on Djokovic's absence.

Give it a few good matches and they won't be reporting on it much again.

Of course - storm in a tea cup stuff.

IMO the right decision was made even if it was possibly for the wrong reasons. One thing that made me laugh was the some of the comments made by the Serbian President, Aleksander Vucic:

"Anyway, it [would have been] very easy for the Australian authorities to say from the very beginning that OK, only vaccinated, only inoculated people could enter Australian territory, but they didn't say so."

Mate, do you know how to read? This has always been clear!

"What is not fair play is the political witch hunt, by everybody including the Australian Prime Minister, pretending that the rules apply to all,"

In Serbia they may not (and Vucic's reputation in this regard is interesting) but we Australians certainly think that they should. We don't care if you are Joe Bloggs from Outer Whipsnade or an international 'star' - them's the rules and they apply to everybody. Johnny Depp found this out the hard way!

I wonder if the Serbian President is related to Trump?

[Madiel]

"Anyway, it [would have been] very easy for the Australian authorities to say from the very beginning that OK, only vaccinated, only inoculated people could enter Australian territory, but they didn't say so."

Mate, do you know how to read? This has always been clear!

Apparently it wasn't clear to Tennis Australia for one thing.

Nor does it seem to have been clear to border officials, for the first few people who came in with bad Tennis Australia-issued "exemptions", that this was not okay.

So while there's certainly an argument that the policy was always the policy, I do think there are real questions about the failings in actually implementing that policy. The failings that led to Djokovic ever thinking he should get on a plane to Australia, and the failings that led other people to enter Australia on the same basis that Djokovic was trying to.

It's not hard to accuse Australia of inconsistency here and construct a narrative where Djokovic was targeted. I mean, I generally suspect that isn't a correct narrative, and the real story is one of us not running our systems properly coupled with Tennis Australia being hopeless, and possibly it took Djokovic's exceptionally high profile to notice that we'd mucked it up for some time before his arrival.  But it's not as if you have to be a conspiracy nut to notice that Djokovic seems to be the only person heading to the Australian Open who was stopped at the border, and he was not the only person heading to the Australian Open who was unvaccinated.

There's a basic principle that I learned from Yes, Minister and which is fairly widely known in Canberra: if you have to choose between a conspiracy and a stuff-up, it's far more likely to have been a stuff-up. But as we keep saying it wasn't a conspiracy, I don't think it's okay to just quietly sweep the stuff-up under the carpet. Questions should definitely be asked about how it ever came to this.

[Florestan]

Djokovic seems to be the only person heading to the Australian Open who was stopped at the border

That's technically true but actually he's not the only one to have their visa cancelled and get deported.

'I felt like a criminal': Renata Voracova on being kicked out of Australia

    Tennis player says she was made to undress during questioning
    WTA offers backing to Czech player it says did 'nothing wrong'

The Czech doubles player Renata Voracova, who was deported from Australia after her visa was cancelled, has spoken of how she "felt like a criminal" and was made to undress by the Australia Border Force during questioning.

Voracova had initially been allowed to enter Australia on a medical exemption granted after she had an adverse reaction to a Covid infection and even played in a tournament in Melbourne.

However, in the fallout from the cancellation of Novak Djokovic's visa on the basis of a similar exemption, Voracova was ordered to leave the country and was deported on Saturday.

Voracova, who has said she hopes Tennis Australia does the right thing so she is not forced to sue for compensation, told BBC News Russian: "I felt a little bit like a criminal, but there was no reason why I should feel like that. I sent all the documents. They were approved. If I knew there would be even a 1% chance of something not being right, I wouldn't go."

The 38-year-old, who has won 11 WTA doubles titles and reached the semi-finals of the women's doubles at Wimbledon in 2017, still intends to get vaccinated against Covid-19 in the future and said that she had suffered medical complications after contracting the virus that prevented her getting the jab before the Australian Open.

She told the Russian publication Denik of being made to undress during her detention and interrogation by immigration officials before leaving Australia.

"I was worried. I didn't feel safe until I was back home, nothing was certain," she said. "It was as if I were watching a film – a long interrogation with instructions such as 'undress, get dressed'. Yuck, I don't even want to think about it, let alone live it again."

[Madiel]

That's technically true but actually he's not the only one to have their visa cancelled and get deported.

Yes I know. But that's exactly the point. She got through. Why?

[Florestan]

Yes I know. But that's exactly the point. She got through. Why?

I suppose because the border police inspected her documents and found them to be okay --- which begs the question: why was she eventually deported?

[Madiel]

I suppose because the border police inspected her documents and found them to be okay --- which begs the question: why was she eventually deported?

Because her documents had exactly the same flaw as Djokovic's. This is my point. She had exactly the same ground for exemption; the same flawed ground.

I don't know exactly what the Tennis Australia document said. And that's one of the things that would be interesting to know. It didn't raise an alarm bell for a low profile player who wasn't known for funny views on vaccines (in fact she doesn't have funny views on vaccines, her reason for not being vaccinated was from circumstances rather than views).

[Florestan]

Because her documents had exactly the same flaw as Djokovic's. This is my point. She had exactly the same ground for exemption; the same flawed ground.

In which case the border police officer(s) who allowed her to enter Australia should be sanctioned for not fulfilling their duty. If those dealing with Djokovic stopped him at the border, so should have done those dealing with Voracova.

I don't know exactly what the Tennis Australia document said. And that's one of the things that would be interesting to know. It didn't raise an alarm bell for a low profile player who wasn't known for funny views on vaccines (in fact she doesn't have funny views on vaccines, her reason for not being vaccinated was from circumstances rather than views).

So, if Djokovic would not have come to Australia, Voracova would have played in the tournament alright without anyone noticing her documents were flawed. Which seems to underscore the point of those who claim that Djokovic was deported not because of his documents but because of his views on vaccination.

Anyway, I'm kind of fed up with this mess which could have been easily avoided.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Why, of course he said that, after all he has much more chances of winning now that Djokovic is out. I think his comments were totally unsportsmanship )is that a word?)

Although not the first instance of politics impacting on sport, the whole mess was a pathetic circus show. I think this year tournament's reputation has been greatly damaged.

Re Rafa:  I could see how you could view it that way--if it was all that he had said over the course of Novak's visa woes--but it wasn't.

Here is an article which quotes an interview that he did for I believe a Spanish radio station when Novak had his visa reinstated:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10386299/Novak-Djokovic-Rafael-Nadal-labels-Serbs-visa-row-CIRCUS.html

and from another interview (I think that this was after the first time that it was revoked):  https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/tennis/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-australian-open-spt-intl/index.html

And here's part of a live interview referring to my earlier comment re the sport vs. specific players:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQVo1P5bk4

Anyway, there are other interviews with him.  You can do the digging around though; I'm just in from an hour and a half of shoveling...breakfast time. 

PD

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Nadal's statement in question could be taken out of context (by media or you). Nadal said "If he's playing, finally, OK. If he's not playing, the Australian Open will be a great Australian Open, with or without him."

Also he said the followings.

"I respect him as a person. Of course, a lot as an athlete. Even if I don't agree with his way to thinking about how to proceed with this pandemic."  "I really believe in vaccination...and when you make your decisions then there is some consequences...We did a lot of things together. I think positive things for our sport and I wish him well."

"What we are facing worldwide is much, much more important than tennis and tennis players...millions of people have already passed away and a lot of families are suffering the consequences of this terrible (pandemic) almost two years."

Ah, I had missed the following page when I went to reply to Florestan's comments.  Thank you for adding in the above.  And, yes, I also think that Rafa's very intelligent too.  By the way, and I believe that it was also part of your first quotation paragraph, he also had mentioned that they had worked with/helped each *others(?) charities [and ones in general in which tennis players played to raise money for charities].

*Which has been common particularly among the top players

Because her documents had exactly the same flaw as Djokovic's. This is my point. She had exactly the same ground for exemption; the same flawed ground.

I don't know exactly what the Tennis Australia document said. And that's one of the things that would be interesting to know. It didn't raise an alarm bell for a low profile player who wasn't known for funny views on vaccines (in fact she doesn't have funny views on vaccines, her reason for not being vaccinated was from circumstances rather than views).

I was shocked and horrified that she was made to undress!  What the h**l for?!

PD

[Florestan]

Re Rafa:  I could see how you could view it that way--if it was all that he had said over the course of Novak's visa woes--but it wasn't.

Here is an article which quotes an interview that he did for I believe a Spanish radio station when Novak had his visa reinstated:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10386299/Novak-Djokovic-Rafael-Nadal-labels-Serbs-visa-row-CIRCUS.html

and from another interview (I think that this was after the first time that it was revoked):  https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/06/tennis/rafael-nadal-novak-djokovic-australian-open-spt-intl/index.html

And here's part of a live interview referring to my earlier comment re the sport vs. specific players:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaQVo1P5bk4

Anyway, there are other interviews with him.  You can do the digging around though; I'm just in from an hour and a half of shoveling...breakfast time. 

PD

See my reply #6765.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

See my reply #6765.

And see my comment in 6775...specifically "Ah, I had missed the following page when I went to reply to Florestan's comments."   

PD

[Florestan]

And see my comment in 6775...specifically "Ah, I had missed the following page when I went to reply to Florestan's comments."   

PD

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I hadn't read the whole thing and commented only on the part referred to by PD. My bad.

Not an issue. Have a great week and enjoy beer, Andrei!

Ah, I had missed the following page when I went to reply to Florestan's comments.  Thank you for adding in the above.  And, yes, I also think that Rafa's very intelligent too.  By the way, and I believe that it was also part of your first quotation paragraph, he also had mentioned that they had worked with/helped each *others(?) charities [and ones in general in which tennis players played to raise money for charities].

*Which has been common particularly among the top playersI was shocked and horrified that she was made to undress!  What the h**l for?!

PD

Yes, the way he chose things he would say and things he wouldn't say evinces his intelligence and decency.