Coronavirus thread

[Florestan]

    So why did Trump accept their word and amplify their message while his intelligence agencies told him China was covering up? Is he a communist dupe or a dictator dupe? What does "I don't see why it would be Russia" mean?

    You attach too much importance to the label and not enough to how dictators behave, left ones, right ones, aspiring ones, all ones.

My post has got nothing to do with Trump. I don't even know, or care about, what he said. It's how I see the whole thing. We're all in deep shit because of the CCP's policies.

[drogulus]

What about Boston Globe who apparently care more about their revenues than bringing information to people when they need it the most?

This is the message I received when clicking the link:

YOU'VE BEEN SELECTED
Only $1 for 6 months
Special offer just for you. Only $1 for unlimited access.
Get access now

Thanks but no thanks.

     I got that, too. I subscribe to the WaPo and NYTimes because they are essential IMV. The Globe would be overkill.

My post has got nothing to do with Trump. I don't even know, or care about, what he said. It's how I see the whole thing. We're all in deep shit because of the CCP's policies.

    If China decided to disown the communist label and assumed a purely nationalistic one more descriptively accurate, they would have behaved the same way. Their methods and motivations would be the same. Trump would be duped by them just the same.

[Kaga2]

Let's forget actual Covid 19 news so that the same posters can have the same fights about Donald Trump that they have on every thread.

[Florestan]

     If China decided to disown the communist label and assumed a purely nationalistic one more descriptively accurate, they would have behaved the same way. Their methods and motivations would be the same. Trump would be duped by them just the same.

China's regime can be accurately described as national-communism. Leaving out the latter term is misleading.

[drogulus]

Let's forget actual Covid 19 news so that the same posters can have the same fights about Donald Trump that they have on every thread.

     OK, sounds good to me. I think China and Trump are big parts of the pandemic story. I'll still comment on other pandemic news, though, if that's all right.

[Karl Henning]

What about Boston Globe who apparently care more about their revenues than bringing information to people when they need it the most?

This is the message I received when clicking the link:

YOU'VE BEEN SELECTED
Only $1 for 6 months
Special offer just for you. Only $1 for unlimited access.
Get access now

Thanks but no thanks.

Well, that is an opinion piece;  articles about the pandemic proper are available to all.

[Karl Henning]

Blinkered evangelicals:

Liberty University is welcoming students back to campus, while colleges across the county have sent students home to to try slow the spread of coronavirus.

[Karl Henning]

France became the fifth country to mark more than 1,000 coronavirus deaths.

[drogulus]

     The Italian slowdown appears to be real, though very gradual. Spanish, French and US deaths are doubling every 3 days, Italian deaths are now doubling every 5 days.

[Kaga2]

     OK, sounds good to me. I think China and Trump are big parts of the pandemic story. I'll still comment on other pandemic news, though, if that's all right.

Yes, it's perfectly alright with me if you do exactly what I just wished for you to do.

[Ratliff]

There was denial and coverup at the beginning of the outbreak, certainly. But they had 41 confirmed cases on January 10, and 571 confirmed cases on January 22, when they implemented the complete lockdown of the province. Now they have gotten to a point where there are no new infections as the point of origin. Has any western state been more proactive? I see western states that did nothing at the same stage, even after witnessing events in China and the response.

[drogulus]

Yes, it's perfectly alright with me if you do exactly what I just wished for you to do.

     Trump is a Chinese Communist.

     

There was denial and coverup at the beginning of the outbreak, certainly. But they had 41 confirmed cases on January 10, and 571 confirmed cases on January 22, when they implemented the complete lockdown of the province. Now they have gotten to a point where there are no new infections as the point of origin. Has any western state been more proactive? I see western states that did nothing at the same stage, even after witnessing events in China and the response.

   
Dec. 10: Wei Guixian, one of the earliest known coronavirus patients, starts feeling ill.

Dec. 16: Patient admitted to Wuhan Central Hospital with infection in both lungs but resistant to anti-flu drugs. Staff later learned he worked at a wildlife market connected to the outbreak.

Dec. 27: Wuhan health officials are told that a new coronavirus is causing the illness.

Dec. 30:

    Ai Fen, a top director at Wuhan Central Hospital, posts information on WeChat about the new virus. She was reprimanded for doing so and told not to spread information about it.
    Wuhan doctor Li Wenliang also shares information on WeChat about the new SARS-like virus. He is called in for questioning shortly afterward.
    Wuhan health commission notifies hospitals of a "pneumonia of unclear cause" and orders them to report any related information.

Dec. 31:

    Wuhan health officials confirm 27 cases of illness and close a market they think is related to the virus' spread.
    China tells the World Health Organization's China office about the cases of an unknown illness.

Jan. 1: Wuhan Public Security Bureau brings in for questioning eight doctors who had posted information about the illness on WeChat.

    An official at the Hubei Provincial Health Commission orders labs, which had already determined that the novel virus was similar to SARS, to stop testing samples and to destroy existing samples.

Jan. 2: Chinese researchers map the new coronavirus' complete genetic information. This information is not made public until Jan. 9.

Jan. 7: Xi Jinping becomes involved in the response.

Jan. 9: China announces it has mapped the coronavirus genome.

Jan. 11–17: Important prescheduled CCP meeting held in Wuhan. During that time, the Wuhan Health Commission insists there are no new cases.

Jan. 13: First coronavirus case reported in Thailand, the first known case outside China.

Jan. 14: WHO announces Chinese authorities have seen "no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus."

Jan. 15: The patient who becomes the first confirmed U.S. case leaves Wuhan and arrives in the U.S., carrying the coronavirus.

[drogulus]

     It's funny, I remember the stories about the Chinese doctor who was arrested and others being told to keep quiet. That must have been around the time Trump was getting briefings from the intelligence people about what was really happening in China. Meanwhile Trump was congratulating the Chinese leader on his successful handling of the situation.

     As CNBC reported on Jan. 24:

President Donald Trump thanked Chinese President Xi Jinping for his country's handling of the coronavirus, shortly after American health officials confirmed a second case in the United States. "China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus," Trump wrote in a post on Twitter. "The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency. It will all work out well. In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!"

     

[JBS]

Blinkered evangelicals:

Liberty University is welcoming students back to campus, while colleges across the county have sent students home to to try slow the spread of coronavirus.

It may not be quite so irrational as it sounds.

During that same segment in which the President of Liberty U suggested COVID19 is a Chinese plot, he said that

1)the dorms are open for international students and special needs students, and students whose parents decided the students were safer at the school than at home (usually because home is one or another hot spot for the virus).  All other students remain at their own home.

2)all learning is done online. Even for the students who are on campus,  it will be online,  and no in classroom learning.

That's not in fact very different from what many schools are doing: students who can't go home for one reason or another are allowed to stay on campus, and all educational activity is online. My alma mater seems to be doing it that, and unlike Liberty, they have a med school and associated resources, and the CDC itself, on campus.

[Daverz]

Blinkered evangelicals:

Liberty University is welcoming students back to campus, while colleges across the county have sent students home to to try slow the spread of coronavirus.

It seems they are susceptible to magical thinking.  Who woulda knowed?

[Karl Henning]

It may not be quite so irrational as it sounds.

During that same segment in which the President of Liberty U suggested COVID19 is a Chinese plot, he said that

1)the dorms are open for international students and special needs students, and students whose parents decided the students were safer at the school than at home (usually because home is one or another hot spot for the virus).  All other students remain at their own home.

2)all learning is done online. Even for the students who are on campus,  it will be online,  and no in classroom learning.

That's not in fact very different from what many schools are doing: students who can't go home for one reason or another are allowed to stay on campus, and all educational activity is online. My alma mater seems to be doing it that, and unlike Liberty, they have a med school and associated resources, and the CDC itself, on campus.

Interesting!

[Mandryka]

It would be great if someone who understands statistics comment this -- Scarpia maybe. If the guys at Oxford are right it radically changes things.




https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxmu2rwsnhi9j9c/Draft-COVID-19-Model%20(13).pdf?dl=0

[Kaga2]

It would be great if someone who understands statistics comment this -- Scarpia maybe. If the guys at Oxford are right it radically changes things.




https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxmu2rwsnhi9j9c/Draft-COVID-19-Model%20(13).pdf?dl=0

I stopped when I read this

Our overall approach rests on the assumption that only a very small proportion of the
population is at risk of hospitalisable illness.

The real risk of the epidemic is that it will overwhelm our healthcare systems. They have assumed this risk away, more or less.

[Ratliff]

Dec. 10: Wei Guixian, one of the earliest known coronavirus patients, starts feeling ill.

Dec. 16: Patient admitted to Wuhan Central Hospital with infection in both lungs but resistant to anti-flu drugs. Staff later learned he worked at a wildlife market connected to the outbreak.

Dec. 27: Wuhan health officials are told that a new coronavirus is causing the illness.

Dec. 30:

    Ai Fen, a top director at Wuhan Central Hospital, posts information on WeChat about the new virus. She was reprimanded for doing so and told not to spread information about it.
    Wuhan doctor Li Wenliang also shares information on WeChat about the new SARS-like virus. He is called in for questioning shortly afterward.
    Wuhan health commission notifies hospitals of a "pneumonia of unclear cause" and orders them to report any related information.

Dec. 31:

    Wuhan health officials confirm 27 cases of illness and close a market they think is related to the virus' spread.
    China tells the World Health Organization's China office about the cases of an unknown illness.

Jan. 1: Wuhan Public Security Bureau brings in for questioning eight doctors who had posted information about the illness on WeChat.

    An official at the Hubei Provincial Health Commission orders labs, which had already determined that the novel virus was similar to SARS, to stop testing samples and to destroy existing samples.

Jan. 2: Chinese researchers map the new coronavirus' complete genetic information. This information is not made public until Jan. 9.

Jan. 7: Xi Jinping becomes involved in the response.

Jan. 9: China announces it has mapped the coronavirus genome.

Jan. 11–17: Important prescheduled CCP meeting held in Wuhan. During that time, the Wuhan Health Commission insists there are no new cases.

Jan. 13: First coronavirus case reported in Thailand, the first known case outside China.

Jan. 14: WHO announces Chinese authorities have seen "no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel coronavirus."

Jan. 15: The patient who becomes the first confirmed U.S. case leaves Wuhan and arrives in the U.S., carrying the coronavirus.

Generally it seems like local public health officials figuring out the nature of the disease as soon as could be expected, but local political leaders suppressing information and thwarting an appropriate response. The statement that no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the coronavirus has been seen stands out as a red flag. But at that point there was a small cluster of cases and it could be that all could be traced back to the market where it seems to have originated. Eight days later the national government ordered the province sealed off.

My point isn't that China didn't screw it up. My point is that people are criticizing China from countries that had advanced warning and screwed it up even worse.
 

[Karl Henning]

My point isn't that China didn't screw it up. My point is that people are criticizing China from countries that had advanced warning and screwed it up even worse.
 

Niffs of scapegoating, which here more than anywhere is useless.

Scarps, best of luck with the relocation!