Coronavirus thread

[Kaga2]

You can't use ventilators without sedatives. Now the US is running out of those, too.

"Ambulance and emergency sirens in New York City are wailing ceaselessly this month, as the number of reported deaths from Covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, in the state surpassed 4,100 as of April 6. (Public health experts say that these tallies are severely undercounting the total.)

As one of the hardest-hit locations in the US so far, the city is scrambling to find enough ventilators — equipment that gets oxygen into the lungs of severe Covid-19 patients having trouble breathing on their own — for the expected surge in patients. Gov. Andrew Cuomo said at a press conference April 4 that the state had ordered 17,000 ventilators from the federal government, but "that order never came through."

Although New York City may be the first city in the country to run out of ventilators, other cities are expected to follow. New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy recently tweeted, "Ventilators are our #1 need right now. I won't stop fighting to get us the equipment we need to save every life we can." Louisiana Governor John Bel Edwards predicted that his state would run out of ventilators by April 6.

But to save a Covid-19 patient's life with a ventilator, you also need an ample supply of medications, both to be able to use the machine and to prevent agonizing pain. Experts say there's a worrisome shortage of those, too — one that's only expected to grow worse.

"The minute you talk about ventilators you need to talk about medications," says Esther Choo, an associate professor of emergency medicine at Oregon Health & Science University. Choo says hospitals are already running out of medications like fentanyl, versed, propofol, and even neuromuscular blockades, what she calls "everyday bread and butter medications," the drugs needed to induce and maintain sedation while on a ventilator. "Ventilators can't really be used without these medications."[...]

Obvious really, but I hadn't thought of it.
Screwing with the supply chain is dangerous.

[vandermolen]

Nor I. But I think it's obvious he needs to stop trying to lead the country and concentrate on getting better. The two demands seem at war with each other.

Yes, I agree. It was fairly clear that his condition was worse than we were being told. They need to be straight with us rather than drip-feeding misleading information.

[vandermolen]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52192604

Not looking good for Boris Johnson. I don't like the man as a politician, but bless him. Fingers crossed he survives it.

+1

[Herman]

?
Willem Alexander will be 53 on april 27th. His corona speech was well received:  https://youtu.be/SWLyu_F35W4

the Belgian king Philip turned 60 on april 15th.

I know it's puzzling. I guess I said "a mere lad" because (for me) it's kind of hard to take words of comfort and succour from a person who has never had to lift a finger and whose public speaking skills (in terms of looking like a real human being) are not overwhelming.

The prime minister is really the person for this job. Not that he's my kind of guy (both the king and the PM were at the same college at the same time as I) but at least he can be held accountable for things.

[Irons]

Like President Putin?

I do not entirely disagree with your second point but she has been broadcasting to the British people since 1940 and exemplifies a sense of duty and service. That has to count for something I think.

Also counts for something Jeffrey that 28 million watched the speech live. Add a few million more on "catch-up".

I think it fine to criticise the monarchy but to criticise the monarch the Queen does not stand up to scrutiny in my book.

[Rinaldo]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52192604

Not looking good for Boris Johnson. I don't like the man as a politician, but bless him. Fingers crossed he survives it.

+1

-1. He's getting the best possible care while others risk – and lose – their lives due to his incompetence. As much as I would like, I can't muster any sympathy for someone directly responsible for so much suffering.

[Rinaldo]

Navarro memos warning of mass coronavirus death circulated in January

In late January, President Trump's economic adviser Peter Navarro warned his White House colleagues the novel coronavirus could take more than half a million American lives and cost close to $6 trillion, according to memos obtained by Axios.

[vandermolen]

Also counts for something Jeffrey that 28 million watched the speech live. Add a few million more on "catch-up".

I think it fine to criticise the monarchy but to criticise the monarch the Queen does not stand up to scrutiny in my book.

Totally agree with you Lol - you explain it more clearly than I did.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Totally agree with you Lol - you explain it more clearly than I did.

From this side of the 'puddle', I've held a great deal of respect for your queen for many years...my parents did too.  And I watched her speech (youtube) in full and was very impressed by her dignity, composure, calmness and strength and her valiant attempts to calm and inspire her fellow citizens.

PD

[Herman]

-1. He's getting the best possible care while others risk – and lose – their lives due to his incompetence. As much as I would like, I can't muster any sympathy for someone directly responsible for so much suffering.

Well, in the first place I hope BoJo gets out of ICU and survives in some form (some ex-ICU patients have a lot of lung damage). He's got a pregnant partner at home.

On the other hand someone here praised his stoic continuing to shake hands, the way politicians do. Well, that was just plain irresponsible, and one would like a politician to be responsible in the first place. For others and for himself.

[Herman]

There is a good article in latest The New Yorker about research into remedies at various universities.

Turns out big pharma componies do very little research into viral remedies / vaccines, because the most recent viral epidemics were relatively shortlived one-time events, which means that there is insufficient return on investment.

Thanks, market-based thinking. This is the reason why we need to look to university research.

The labs in the New Yorker article aren't so much looking for a vaccine, but an antiviral that takes out vital parts of the virus, and some are looking for a way to affect the host body (= us) in such a microscopic manner that a virus just cannot land. And all are looking for a way to make a kind of universal antiviral that will kill future coronaviruses, too  -  since it's pretty certain there will be a new potential epidemic in a couple of years, with a different virus. This broader application will make it more viable commercially, too.

[Kaga2]

-1. He's getting the best possible care while others risk – and lose – their lives due to his incompetence. As much as I would like, I can't muster any sympathy for someone directly responsible for so much suffering.

Wishing death and suffering on someone, which is precisely what your -1 means, is despicable.

[drogulus]

   

There is a good article in latest The New Yorker about research into remedies at various universities.

Turns out big pharma componies do very little research into viral remedies / vaccines, because the most recent viral epidemics were relatively shortlived one-time events, which means that there is insufficient return on investment.

Thanks, market-based thinking. This is the reason why we need to look to university research.

The labs in the New Yorker article aren't so much looking for a vaccine, but an antiviral that takes out vital parts of the virus, and some are looking for a way to affect the host body (= us) in such a microscopic manner that a virus just cannot land. And all are looking for a way to make a kind of universal antiviral that will kill future coronaviruses, too  -  since it's pretty certain there will be a new potential epidemic in a couple of years, with a different virus. This broader application will make it more viable commercially, too.

      There needs to be more public in public health. The return on public investment is high, because it raises the return on private investment. Healthy people are productive, for themselves and everyone else.

     

[Irons]

Wishing death and suffering on someone, which is precisely what your -1 means, is despicable.

Thanks for saying that. Saves me having to.

[drogulus]

     At least half of covid-19 patients on ventilators don't make it

     Note that this is not the case for all patients on ventilators.

[Florestan]

Wishing death and suffering on someone, which is precisely what your -1 means, is despicable.

Hear, hear!

[Mandryka]

Food for thought about ventilators here

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/Ventilators-aren-t-a-panacea-for-a-pandemic-like-coronavirus

I'm beginning to think that if, God forbid, I'm offered a ventilator, I'd refuse.

[Rinaldo]

Wishing death and suffering on someone, which is precisely what your -1 means, is despicable.

I don't wish him anything. I just don't feel any sympathy for his ordeal, while the country suffers because of him.

[Florestan]

I don't wish him anything. I just don't feel any sympathy for his ordeal, while the country suffers because of him.

As if he was the absolute dictator of the UK and nothing whatever was done, or not done, unless he so ordered. As if the "herd immunity" strategy was of his own making and lots of Imperial College scientists had got nothing to do with it. As if all those people who filled London's parks on Sunday did so on his orders. As if his ordeal was an atonement that would end all other Britons' ordeal.

You try to find excuses for your untenable position but you only make it worse.

[Rinaldo]

As if he was the absolute dictator of the UK and nothing whatever was done, or not done, unless he so ordered. As if the "herd immunity" strategy was of his own making and lots of Imperial College scientists had got nothing to do with it. As if all those people who filled London's parks on Sunday did so on his orders. As if his ordeal was an atonement that would end all other Britons' ordeal.

You try to find excuses for your untenable position but you only make it worse.

So because he's not the singular ruler, he's exempt of responsibility? He and the politics that he represents and fights for is what led Britain to where it is now.

I'm not excusing myself and I applaud everybody who's able to extend warmth to people who cause harm. I can't.