Coronavirus thread

[Karl Henning]

[...] and less and less like the tested, safe and efficient vaccines we were supposed to believe we have.

Not for the first time you are selectively inattentive:  No one has claimed that the vaccine has been completely tested. Nor has there been as claim that it is 100% safe.  It has been reasonably safe and efficient (something which even your snark will not deny).

As to this being an experiment, we've all been placed in a real-time experiment by the pandemic. So what's your beef? That the scientists are doing their job?

[Mirror Image]

Garth Brooks cancels Gillette Stadium show due to COVID-19

And so it follows with others:

Covid: Stevie Nicks cancels US performances to 'keep healthy'

[Mirror Image]

Hah! My twaddle is vindicated by none other than Dr. Fauci.

And then come the epsilon variant and they'll have to boost the booster; and after that, come the lambda variant, and the boost will need its own booster, aso asf. This looks more and more like a worldwide-scale vaccinological experiment in a constant state of tweaking and less and less like the tested, safe and efficient vaccines we were supposed to believe we have.

Andrei, my sister is living proof that the vaccine does work. She has already made a full recovery from COVID and is doing fine. If she hadn't received the vaccine, I might be whistling a different tune. I also recently saw a story on the local news where someone was in ICU with COVID and was given the vaccine and they made a miraculous recovery not long after receiving the first dosage. But this is just one story out of thousands. We're living in a time where the future depends on getting more people healthy and the only way to defeat COVID is by everyone getting vaccinated. Senseless deaths are something this world doesn't need and the only thing that we can do is help curve the death toll. I don't have any control over what people do like those who may have COVID that go to sporting events and sneeze on people, but I can only do my civic duty and be aware of the people that I'm around. I remained ambivalent about the vaccine for quite some time, but after what happened to my sister, the severity of not getting the vaccine made me drop what I was doing at that moment and schedule to get it the next day. When something hits home like this did, it made me reconsider my previous position in a heartbeat.

[André]

Not for the first time you are selectively inattentive:  No one has claimed that the vaccine has been completely tested. Nor has there been as claim that it is 100% safe.  It has been reasonably safe and efficient (something which even your snark will not deny).

As to this being an experiment, we've all been placed in a real-time experiment by the pandemic. So what's your beef? That the scientists are doing their job?

Exactly. Pandemics will happen as world population grows, humans occupy new territory (deforestation), disturb ecosystems, climate changes (who knows what's buried in permafrost and is now thawing?) and labs the world over study and test viruses. Whatever the source of this or the next pandemics, swiftness of reaction will be key.

[71 dB]

And then come the epsilon variant and they'll have to boost the booster; and after that, come the lambda variant, and the boost will need its own booster, aso asf. This looks more and more like a worldwide-scale vaccinological experiment in a constant state of tweaking and less and less like the tested, safe and efficient vaccines we were supposed to believe we have.

It is a good business for drug companies for sure, but what can we do? Good luck to anti-vaxxers surviving delta, epsilon, lambda,... variants. At least those who get vaccinated have a better chance staying alive and out of hospitals.

[Spotted Horses]

To put it in perspective, there is a Coronavirus known as OC43, one of the seven coronaviruses known to infect humans. It is one of the many viruses which cause what is called the "common cold." Scientists think there is convincing evidence that this virus was the cause of the 1890 Pandemic, causing disease comparable in severity to Covid-19. Now, constant exposure to this virus means that virtually everyone has immunity to this virus from birth. Now that the chance to eradicate the Covid-19 virus has passed, this may be what happens. (We can hope.) The vaccines, are a way to bootstrap this process, and have already saved hundreds of thousands of lives and facilitated a return to some approximation of normalcy. They are worth it. The safety and short-term effectiveness of the vaccines has been established. Obviously the long-term effectiveness of the vaccines is an unknown, given that they have only been in existence for about a year.

[71 dB]

Ireland is only a small nation but we have always punched well above our weight, internationally. And so it is with Covid vaccinations. We currently stand second, behind Malta, in the EU in terms of uptake rate: https://www.irishpost.com/news/ireland-has-2nd-best-vaccine-uptake-in-european-union-218416

Good for Malta 

Good for Malta, but that "ranking" makes very little sense to me. It says 50.20 % for Finland. Are they saying only half of Finns have accepted offered Covid vaccines? That is not even remotely true! About 70 % of Finns have got the first dose and about 44 % the second dose. The vaccinations of 12-15 years have just started this month. The reason why second dose drags behind is because Finland adopted 12 week between the jabs. The amount of second doses is rising rapidly. Vaccine hesitation in Finland is low and and I'd say 80-90 % of those who have been offered it has taken it.

[Que]

Good for Malta, but that "ranking" makes very little sense to me. It says 50.20 % for Finland. Are they saying only half of Finns have accepted offered Covid vaccines? That is not even remotely true! About 70 % of Finns have got the first dose and about 44 % the second dose. The vaccinations of 12-15 years have just started this month. The reason why second dose drags behind is because Finland adopted 12 week between the jabs. The amount of second doses is rising rapidly. Vaccine hesitation in Finland is low and and I'd say 80-90 % of those who have been offered it has taken it.

It is an confusing (sloppy) article....
It keeps talking about vaccine acceptency, while in a actual fact these are the numbers for full vaccinations.

[71 dB]

It is an confusing (sloppy) article....
It keeps talking about vaccine acceptency, while in a actual fact these are the numbers for full vaccinations.

But god job, Ireland! 

What is the point of articles like this? The relevant things are the availability of vaccines and vaccine acceptancy. This article manages to mix these together in a way that gives weird ranking for countries. Finland is doing vaccinations as fast as we can, as fast as we get vaccines and almost all people take it. The vaccines come from EU and all EU countries should get the exact same amount of vaccines per capita, but somehow countries like Ireland are ranked way higher than some other EU countries. What gives?

It looks like (as of 17th August) 72 % of people in Ireland has got at least one shot. In Finland this number is 69 %. What kind of sense does it then make to say the vaccine "uptake" in Ireland is 80.7 % and in Finland 50.2 % ? Yes, Ireland seems to be on of the best countries in vaccinations in Europe, I don't deny that, but Finland is not as far behind as this sloppy article makes it seem.

Just reacting critically to what I read. Below is the vaccination situation in Finland devided as age groups.

[Mandryka]

To put it in perspective, there is a Coronavirus known as OC43, one of the seven coronaviruses known to infect humans. It is one of the many viruses which cause what is called the "common cold." Scientists think there is convincing evidence that this virus was the cause of the 1890 Pandemic, causing disease comparable in severity to Covid-19. Now, constant exposure to this virus means that virtually everyone has immunity to this virus from birth. Now that the chance to eradicate the Covid-19 virus has passed, this may be what happens. (We can hope.) The vaccines, are a way to bootstrap this process, and have already saved hundreds of thousands of lives and facilitated a return to some approximation of normalcy. They are worth it. The safety and short-term effectiveness of the vaccines has been established. Obviously the long-term effectiveness of the vaccines is an unknown, given that they have only been in existence for about a year.

Is there anything accessible to someone who isn't a life scientist that I can read about this?

[Mandryka]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/13august2021

Here is the latest data on incidence in the UK. You will see that we are up to over 100K cases a day. Hospital admissions is under control nonetheless, due to the vaccine. Admissions are stable apart from in hotspots, and that suggests to me that incidence is stable too - i.e. R is at around 1.

One interesting thing is that positive test cases are well under 1/3 of actual incidence. Probably symptoms of delta in vaccinated adults are less severe, so people don't get tested. Possibly people have deleted their contact tracing app, or are ignoring it, because incidence is so great. We are moving away from a system of generalised testing and contact tracing in fact -- the only people who will get tested are the ones with nasty symptoms.

In so far as Britain is trail blazing, this could well be the future for the world. That being said, it is anyone's guess how this will be effected by schools opening, autumn and winter, vaccine waning and new variants.

[Spotted Horses]

Is there anything accessible to someone who isn't a life scientist that I can read about this?

I forgot where I first read about it, maybe the Economist. It is mentioned here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1889–1890_pandemic#Coronavirus

It's a fairly speculative finding.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Some encouraging news (from CNN article, see link for complete article):

As Covid-19 hospitalizations increase, a greater number of Americans are deciding to get vaccinated

"More than 1 million doses of the vaccine were reported administered Thursday, new US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data showed, marking the first time since early July for the single-day change in reported doses. The average pace of those initiating vaccination is more than 70% higher than one month ago.
Oklahoma and Louisiana -- two states that have lagged the rest of the nation in vaccinations -- are now outpacing the national average, White House Covid-19 Response Team Chief of Staff Asma Mirza said in calls with local faith leaders Thursday.
"We're seeing a new willingness, a new openness to getting vaccinated," she said in a discussion with Louisiana faith leaders."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html

PD

[André]

Some encouraging news (from CNN article, see link for complete article):

As Covid-19 hospitalizations increase, a greater number of Americans are deciding to get vaccinated

"More than 1 million doses of the vaccine were reported administered Thursday, new US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data showed, marking the first time since early July for the single-day change in reported doses. The average pace of those initiating vaccination is more than 70% higher than one month ago.
Oklahoma and Louisiana -- two states that have lagged the rest of the nation in vaccinations -- are now outpacing the national average, White House Covid-19 Response Team Chief of Staff Asma Mirza said in calls with local faith leaders Thursday.
"We're seeing a new willingness, a new openness to getting vaccinated," she said in a discussion with Louisiana faith leaders."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/20/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html

PD

Not exactly what this story reports from ol' Alabama...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/19/unvaccinated-alabama/

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Not exactly what this story reports from ol' Alabama...


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/08/19/unvaccinated-alabama/

I can't read the W.P.  What is the gist of the article?

PD

p.s.  I know, the title of that CNN article is somewhat misleading.  I am happy about the turnaround in Louisiana and Oklahoma though.  Hopefully attitudes (and actions) are starting to change in Alabama.  🙏

[Spotted Horses]

Lest you think that nobody in Texas has any sense, this alert appeared on my phone today. Harris County Texas is Central Houston. (I live just over the boarder in Montgomery Country.)

[MusicTurner]

Another confirmation from here in DK: 95% of hospitalizations are those of non-vaccinated.

They've begun giving the 3rd jab for the elderly. In spite of Delta, the R-number has been only 1 for 4.5 weeks now.

Reports about further labels, succesful trials, and new generations of vaccines coming in.

The low number of vaccinations in poorer countries a continued matter of debate, since it also means an obvious space for the virus to continue.

[DavidW]

The politics surrounding mask mandates and anti-mask mandates are really spiraling out of control in South Carolina (where I live).

[Karl Henning]

The politics surrounding mask mandates and anti-mask mandates are really spiraling out of control in South Carolina (where I live).

Ayyup.

[Mirror Image]

I spoke to an ER nurse the other day and she said that the majority of cases of COVID that she has seen in the past 3-4 months have been those that are unvaccinated. A neighbor of mine who is also a nurse, but at a clinic and not a hospital, told me the same thing. So it does seem that skepticism about the efficiency of whether the the vaccine actually works or not seems to be slowly diminishing. In my own case, when COVID hits close to home, it makes one a lot more aware of the dangers of this virus and the reality we currently live in, so I really had no other option as avoidance couldn't last forever as Spotted Horses rightfully pointed out.