Coronavirus thread

[Karl Henning]

Judge dismisses request to stop NH school mask mandates; Vermont to add beds to relieve pressure on hospitals.

[The new erato]

Since Denmark and Finland are very similar size countries, comparing the numbers is pretty easy:

In Finland we have on average about 750 cases/day at the moment. In hospitals we have 208 covid patients of which 30+ are in intensive care. 77 % of patients in hospitals are unvaccinated. At this point we have 1133 corona deaths.

Twice vaccinated: 76 % of people older than 12 and 67 % of the whole population. Vaccine hesitancy has been stronger than expected. Especially young adults and immigrants have been lazy taking the vaccine. One theory for this laziness is that this pandemic has been relatively easy in Finland (mild restrictions) and it hasn't caused as much damage as in many other countries such as Italy and that's why younger adults don't take this seriously. Corona passport was introduced last Saturday and it might increase the interest of getting the vaccines.

608 new cases today in Norway, also of the same size. 69% of the whole population fully vaccinated. I'm thinking as you. 893 detahs in all, mainly older people, mainly from before vaccinations started to have effect. Quite a few with one dose seem to neglect to take the second.

[André]

Judge dismisses request to stop NH school mask mandates; Vermont to add beds to relieve pressure on hospitals.

On paper, beds are easy to add. The difficulty lies in finding the nurses to go with them. One intensive care bed = 1 full time nurse. Nurses in Canada are overworked and difficult to lure into the hospital network (all hospitals are public here). Private sector clinics offer much better conditions, but do not tend to Covid patients.

[Mandryka]

[Que]

Is this the UK Covid triumph made possible by early vaccinations and not being part of the EU? 

[Mandryka]

Is this the UK Covid triumph made possible by early vaccinations and not being part of the EU? 

In my opinion their aim is to ensure that the public health service, the NHS, fails in some obvious way. They will then sell off large parts of it, saying that it will perform better in the private sector. And they will make large amounts of money for themselves and their friends and sponsors in the process.

This is what happens in parliamentary capitalism. The governing party, the Tories, are the puppets of the banks: they are in power because of their support and and they need that support to continue to be in power.  There is effectively no opposition here because there is practically no independent mainstream media, they are all more or less controlled by the forces of global capital. They are now talking about significant restrictions of internet based media, using the recent assassination of an MP as an excuse.

[Holden]

In my opinion their aim is to ensure that the public health service, the NHS, fails in some obvious way. They will then sell off large parts of it, saying that it will perform better in the private sector. And they will make large amounts of money for themselves and their friends and sponsors in the process.

This is what happens in parliamentary capitalism. The governing party, the Tories, are the puppets of the banks: they are in power because of their support and and they need that support to continue to be in power.  There is effectively no opposition here because there is practically no independent mainstream media, they are all more or less controlled by the forces of global capital. They are now talking about significant restrictions of internet based media, using the recent assassination of an MP as an excuse.

Agreed totally.

[MusicTurner]

Yet, 1) in the UK the 'forces of capital' should then mean the ignoring of medical advise and the loosening of restrictions, cf. also very recent appeals from the health sector, that Johnson has chosen to overlook, whereas 2) in Australia, the same "forces of capital' should then mean the maintaining of too many restrictions, and creating unnecessary panic via the press ... ? Seems self-contradictory to me.

EDIT: the only way to reconcile the two would be to think of it phase-wise, that Australia is in a different, earlier phase than the UK. But you still see different behaviours from different governments, when confronted with the various problems.

[Mandryka]

Yet, 1) in the UK the 'forces of capital' should then mean the ignoring of medical advise and the loosening of restrictions, cf. also very recent appeals from the health sector, that Johnson has chosen to overlook,

I think you're oversimplifying. One thing we've all seen is that experts disagree, and they themselves are subject to non-scientific influences. There is no such thing as medical advice. There are competing medical opinions and proposals.

And I think it's false to say that Johnson has overlooked appeals from the health sector here. He has not overlooked them. He thinks they are wrong.

[MusicTurner]

As said above, you still see different behaviours from different governments, when confronted with the various problems. There are, at least to some extent, differences in opinions represented in the press and among politicians; I think not acknowledging that would be over-simplifying things.

Regarding the appeal from the UK health sector, I was referring mostly to headlines this morning, including pleas from healthcare professionals, such as Matthew Taylor the chief executive of the NHS Confederation, and from the British Medical Association: that the time to act is now, regarding re-introducing restrictions -  then afterwards refused by health minister Edward Argar.

[Mandryka]

Regarding the appeal from the UK health sector, I was referring mostly to headlines this morning, including pleas from healthcare professionals, such as Matthew Taylor the chief executive of the NHS Confederation, and from the British Medical Association: that the time to act is now, regarding re-introducing restrictions -  then afterwards refused by health minister Edward Argar.

Yes, the Government has explicitly said that they think that the NHS Confederation is incorrect in its assessment. I don't know of course, and in any case I have an inkling that the Government's fundamental strategy is to set the NHS up to fail, in order to justify further privatisation -- which will be lucrative for them and their friends.

[Holden]

As said above, you still see different behaviours from different governments, when confronted with the various problems.

Regarding the appeal from the UK health sector, I was referring mostly to headlines this morning, including pleas from healthcare professionals, such as Matthew Taylor the chief executive of the NHS Confederation, and from the British Medical Association: that the time to act is now, regarding re-introducing restrictions -  then afterwards refused by health minister Edward Argar.

The pandemic has turned the sovereignty that was Australia into eight separate feudal states overseen by ambitious, politically motivated warlords. The federal government had the power to override all of them but just sat on its hands and prevaricated and procrastinated. This might cost them dearly at the expected federal elections in 2022

Going back to restrictions has to be a retrograde step. We simply have to learn to live with Covid as we did the major influenza outbreaks of a century ago. These influenzas could still be deadly to the vulnerable yet, like Covid, vaccination booster shots are available annually. We have to remember that the common cold and types of 'flu are in themselves older versions of RNA viruses.

[SimonNZ]

Restrictions and requirements *are* "learning to live with it".

As it was in 1918.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

The pandemic has turned the sovereignty that was Australia into eight separate feudal states overseen by ambitious, politically motivated warlords. The federal government had the power to override all of them but just sat on its hands and prevaricated and procrastinated. This might cost them dearly at the expected federal elections in 2022

Going back to restrictions has to be a retrograde step. We simply have to learn to live with Covid as we did the major influenza outbreaks of a century ago. These influenzas could still be deadly to the vulnerable yet, like Covid, vaccination booster shots are available annually. We have to remember that the common cold and types of 'flu are in themselves older versions of RNA viruses.

It's still mind-numbing how much Covid protocols and the efforts to prevent it from spreading are effecting day to day life....including possibly some world records.  For instance, Novak Djokovic may not be competing in the 2022 Australian Open as it seems like the PTB are likely to require all players to be double-jabbed by a certain date in order to play there.  Novak would be defending his title there...and also could break the 3-way tie that he, Federer and Nadal currently hold (all have won 20 slams).  Apparently a number of other players--both on the men's and women's sides--have refused to get vaccinated (so far anyway) including more players in the top 100 rankings (like Tsitsipas who is currently rank either No. 3 or No. 4).  And there's still always the chance of getting infected anyway which has lead to various tennis players having to withdraw from tournaments.

Very minor problems in the broader scope of things for certain though.

Restrictions and requirements *are* "learning to live with it".

As it was in 1918.

Good point Simon!

PD

[Karl Henning]

It's still mind-numbing how much Covid protocols and the efforts to prevent it from spreading are effecting day to day life....including possibly some world records.  For instance, Novak Djokovic may not be competing in the 2022 Australian Open as it seems like the PTB are likely to require all players to be double-jabbed by a certain date in order to play there.  Novak would be defending his title there...and also could break the 3-way tie that he, Federer and Nadal currently hold (all have won 20 slams).  Apparently a number of other players--both on the men's and women's sides--have refused to get vaccinated (so far anyway) including more players in the top 100 rankings (like Tsitsipas who is currently rank either No. 3 or No. 4).  And there's still always the chance of getting infected anyway which has lead to various tennis players having to withdraw from tournaments.

Very minor problems in the broader scope of things for certain though.

Good point Simon!

PD

Indeed: Nothing new under the sun.

[Holden]

Restrictions and requirements *are* "learning to live with it".

As it was in 1918.

'Easing' restrictions and requirements is learning to live with it as opposed to going back to them.

[SimonNZ]

'Easing' restrictions and requirements is learning to live with it as opposed to going back to them.

These things come in waves and here are spikes within waves so the journey out of this is going to be downward trending but not a simple straight line.

[Karl Henning]

Requiring that it be a straight line is flawed thinking.

[Spotted Horses]

'Easing' restrictions and requirements is learning to live die with it as opposed to going back to them.

[Holden]

Simon mentioned 1918 - it was actually 1918 to 1921 - and the Spanish flu eventually became endemic. Yes, some will die and if you think it can all be prevented then I suppose you are playing God. The vaccinated have a greatly increased chance of surviving Covid with very few effects, unlike those in 1918 who didn't have a vaccine like we do today. However, if you want to go down the death, doom and destruction road then that's your prerogative.

All but one of our state governments in Australia have decided to go away from 'zero Covid' and let the vaccination campaign do what it's supposed to do. The alternative is barely worth thinking about which is living in fear for many. Fear of what? Dying? If you haven't been vaccinated then that's a small but possible outcome. How small? If you research the data (and not listen to the various media) then the answer is very small and we are talking about if you actually contract Covid.