Coronavirus thread

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Florestan

#6800
Quote from: Mandryka on January 18, 2022, 03:18:22 AM
Masks in school,

Same here, I forgot about that.

QuoteWork at home if you can.

Same here, widely used.

QuoteThe thing to add about the context is that we had an excellent level of 2x vaccinated and a good level of 3x vaccinated.

Well, we have an excellent level of natural immunity, estimated at 70 % by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. And it shows: while infections are increasing, although not at the rate predicted by the usual prophets of doom&gloom, the number of hospitalizations and deaths remains low, much lower than in the previous wave.

In other news, one of my best friends and his four children of various ages, all unvaccinated including my friend, just recovered from Covid. They had only mild, very mild or no symptoms at all. He is glad that now he can have his Covid Pass on recovery grounds, while his wife is very upset: she tested negative so she can't get one.  :laugh:
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Mandryka

Quote from: Madiel on January 18, 2022, 03:26:35 AM
Well, with England you're talking about a country where the plan at the start of the pandemic was to just let things rip and reach herd immunity... until people started pointing out just how many deaths that would involve and how herd immunity really requires vaccines to be achievable anyway...

In my beginning is my end.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Mandryka

Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2022, 02:35:30 AM


Mask mandate outdoor

This is the one which, for me, is hard to make any sense of.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2022, 01:58:07 AM
What amazes and saddens me is that some people --- I'm not reffering to anyone here --- not only do not oppose such draconian, absurd and inhumane restrictions, but on the contrary relish them and are only too eager to see them implemented in their own country in case they are not in place already.

With each passing day I'm more and more convinced that Romania is one of the freest countries in the EU. Not that there are no restrictions at all, but to be forced out of work and confined to virtual house arrest because unvaccinated is unthinkable here, now and in any foreseeable future.

There is always a tradeoff between individual freedom and collective/societal benefit. Which factor you evaluate higher just depends on your ideology. Certainly some factory owners may argue that their factories should have freedom to burn anything they like, pollute air, and throw waste. Some municipalities impose a huge fine, which you may call draconian, on littering, thereby limiting people's "freedom" to throw garbage.

A relevant concept here is "externality (or collective action problem)." A free choice by a few people may hamper freedom of a larger number of people. When you throw garbages, urinate on street, or play music loud, that will have an adversarial effect on others- often other's freedom.  Also, when your country is building an air defense system against a possible Russian attack, you cannot ask for a system excluding you. It would be either collective defense for all the people or no defense at all (non-excludability).

As for the evaluation of individual freedom vs. collective/societal benefit during the pandemic, one must consider the number of death on the one hand and the real benefit of refraining from vaccination for these unvaccinated people.

Florestan

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 18, 2022, 09:19:45 AM
There is always a tradeoff between individual freedom and collective/societal benefit. Which factor you evaluate higher just depends on your ideology. Certainly some factory owners may argue that their factories should have freedom to burn anything they like, pollute air, and throw waste. Some municipalities impose a huge fine, which you may call draconian, on littering, thereby limiting people's "freedom" to throw garbage.

A relevant concept here is "externality (or collective action problem)." A free choice by a few people may hamper freedom of a larger number of people. When you throw garbages, urinate on street, or play music loud, that will have an adversarial effect on others- often other's freedom.  Also, when your country is building an air defense system against a possible Russian attack, you cannot ask for a system excluding you. It would be either collective defense for all the people or no defense at all (non-excludability).

With all due respect, Manabu, your analogies for refusing vaccination are wildly far-fetched.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Mayor Wu says 1,000 more city employees vaccinated within a week as vaccine mandate went into effect

By Tiana Woodard and Sahar Fatima Globe Staff, Updated January 18, 2022, 10:22 a.m.

Boston has seen a jump of more than 1,000 vaccinated employees since last Monday as Mayor Michelle Wu launched a vaccine mandate on Saturday, she announced Tuesday.

As of this morning, 17,861 city employees are in full compliance with the city's vaccination policies, she said.

"Proof of vaccination for the safety of our workforce and our residents makes a big difference in boosting our rates across the city, which still remains the most powerful tool that we have to keep everyone safe in this pandemic," Wu said.

With Boston now also requiring proof of vaccination in many public spaces, including restaurants, 81 percent of Bostonians have now received at least one dose, which is a 36 percent increase from the week before, said Dr. Bisola Ojikutu, executive director of the Boston Public Health Commission.

"I'm cautiously optimistic," Ojikutu said, adding that Boston's positivity rate is now at 26.5 percent, down from 32 percent last week. Hospitalizations, however, are climbing: adult hospitalizations were up 35 percent and pediatric hospitalizations up 56 percent compared to last week, she said.

Wu and Ojikutu were speaking at a press conference to open the first of three new high-capacity testing sites in Boston on Tuesday in an effort to improve access, particularly in low-income neighborhoods and communities of color.

The Bruce C. Bolling Building in Roxbury will offer free, walk-in testing from 12 p.m. to 8 p.m. Tuesday through Saturday, the public health commission said in a statement Monday evening, with results usually within 24 hours. Cambridge-based CIC Health will offer the testing services, which will involve self-administered PCR tests.

Two additional sites will open soon as well, Ojikutu said: Lilla G. Frederick Pilot Middle School in Dorchester will open for testing at the end of this week to run from Fridays through Sundays, and the Jubilee Christian Church in Mattapan will open next week and run Tuesdays through Thursdays, 12 p.m. to 7 p.m.

"I'm so excited at the potential for this to be one more way to cut down the lines that we've been seeing across the city," Wu said.

The Bolling Building site will have room for 20 people to be tested at once, and room for 50 to wait in line indoors.

Anyone who arrives to line up after those 50 people will be given a ticket on which they can write in a time to return that works best for them, Rodrigo Martinez, chief marketing and experience officer at CIC health, said at the press conference.

Ojikutu said the site will be able to test 1,000 people per day.

"We know that COVID-19 has disproportionately impacted people of color and exacerbated existing barriers to care. So we're really proud to open this site in the heart of Boston's Black and African American community," she said.

Free walk-in testing is also currently available at the Anna M. Cole Community Center in Jamaica Plain and at the West End House in Allston.

Advocates and public health specialists say long wait times, a lack of reliable transportation, jobs with little flexibility, and language barriers make it tougher for people to get tested in low-income, immigrant, and BIPOC communities.

Since the beginning of the pandemic, people in those communities got sick at higher rates because of their exposure at work, in public transportation, and in accessing food than people in wealthier, whiter neighborhoods. State data shows that pattern appears to be continuing with the surge of Omicron. Many of Boston's neighborhoods with large numbers of people of color have reported higher positivity rates than other neighborhoods.

Wu also announced that her administration will ask City Council to replenish Boston's small business relief fund with $5 million of America Rescue Plan funding to support 300 additional small businesses. The city will also be providing technical support for those applying and participating in the program.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

'This is a different phase.' It may be time for a reset on kids, school, and COVID

By Kara Miller Globe Correspondent, Updated January 18, 2022, 1 hour ago

Sometimes you can feel an inflection point.

We're seeing it in waste water, where, in the Boston area, evidence of COVID-19 has been plummeting for about a week.

That already seems to be reflected in moderating case numbers. And, soon, we may start to witness a radical shift in how we think about COVID and school.

Such a shift would impact a core part of society, one that has been a lightning rod for the last two years. And it may set the stage for a new chapter in the pandemic.

Sometimes you can feel an inflection point.

We're seeing it in waste water, where, in the Boston area, evidence of COVID-19 has been plummeting for about a week.

That already seems to be reflected in moderating case numbers. And, soon, we may start to witness a radical shift in how we think about COVID and school.

Such a shift would impact a core part of society, one that has been a lightning rod for the last two years. And it may set the stage for a new chapter in the pandemic.

David Rubin, a pediatrician at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia — one of the largest children's hospitals in the country — insists: Not only do we need to keep schools open, but our entire approach to kids has to change.

David Rubin, a pediatrician at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia — one of the largest children's hospitals in the country — insists: Not only do we need to keep schools open, but our entire approach to kids has to change.

David Rubin, a pediatrician at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia — one of the largest children's hospitals in the country — insists: Not only do we need to keep schools open, but our entire approach to kids has to change.

If the exposure comes from home (where people spend more of their time, and are more likely to spread the virus), "mask to stay" should be allowed only if the individual in question is vaccinated. That person could also be included in a smaller, more targeted test-to-stay program.

Rubin knows these proposals are unusual, at least for this moment. And for some, they'll feel scary.

But, he says, we have hit that all-important inflection point. And if nothing changes about the labyrinth of policies we currently rely on, he's worried about the road we're headed down.

"Kids were asked to shoulder a lot of the burden last year in a collective community response to COVID. Now the issues around prolonging social isolation or continuing to deny access to in-person education are so far greater than the risk of the virus itself. Not just to the children but to their families themselves, particularly now that people can get vaccinated."

Since 2022 began, some large districts — like Chicago, Milwaukee, and Atlanta — have closed or gone remote for at least a few days. Even in towns and cities that stayed open, many students and teachers have missed lots of school due to quarantines.

Testing — which is often hard to get — has seemed key to keeping schools open.

And, Rubin says, it has been. Children's Hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) runs a large testing program and advocated for test-to-stay policies early on. But in a fast-moving pandemic, such programs may become less and less important.

"When everyone's exposed," Rubin told me, "what does it mean to test everyone every week? This is a different phase."

In the last few days, in fact, we've seen the entire state of Vermont make the shift away from routine, asymptomatic testing, instead allowing parents to do rapid testing at home, when it makes sense.

"Many of the strategies that previously were effective for us will cease to be useful (if they haven't already)," wrote Vermont Secretary of Education Dan French, "and will instead become a drain on scarce resources without a clear public health benefit."

Dr. Benjamin Lee, a pediatrician at the Larner College of Medicine at the University of Vermont, warns that we need a new way of thinking about the pandemic.

"I do think it makes sense to understand that ... the days of relying on a centralized top-down response may no longer be the best approach going forward," he told Vermont Public Radio.

Governor Charlie Baker may be edging towards this view as well, announcing on Tuesday that Massachusetts schools can now adopt at-home rapid testing, as an alternative to the more formal "test and stay."

Delaware County, just outside Philadelphia, has formally embraced CHOP's recommendations, including allowing asymptomatic students and staff to stay in school, if their exposure to COVID comes from a non-household member.

Rubin says that CHOP's test-to-stay program taught him that "even though we got a lot of schools to do it, and we trained a lot of people to do it, a lot of schools couldn't do it. Particularly under-resourced schools could not pull it off in a way that maybe other schools that had more resources could.

"So you started to create a system of the haves and the have-nots. And so you had some schools where kids were quarantined for 10, 14 days. And other schools that were getting their kids back in five days." He said those disparities started to weigh on him.

And it's important to acknowledge, he says, what is lost when kids quarantine.

There was a mental health crisis among kids before the pandemic, but now hospitals are increasingly seeing the effects of isolation and distancing.

As the CDC has made clear, ER visits for suicide attempts among young people (particularly girls) skyrocketed during the pandemic. And this fall, the American Academy of Pediatrics declared a "national emergency" due to "soaring rates of mental health challenges" since the spring of 2020.

As a parent of young children who has been following local, state, and school coronavirus guidelines with a fervor that I generally reserve for returns on election night, it's hard to imagine us ever getting out of this thicket of regulations, testing, and quarantines.

Can you really keep schools running when kids and teachers are exposed, but not routinely tested, as Rubin would have it?

Yes, he says. Because there are risks on both sides of the ledger.

"We're actually seeing the patients. We're seeing the spectrum of illness firsthand. And we're also seeing the competing risks in our patients. And it's time for someone with that level of authority that's unconflicted, that's not a health department, that's not the CDC, to say: From our vantage point, the calculus now has changed."

He says that, judging from what he sees in the hospital, COVID is now acting more like "a seasonal virus, with regards to the spectrum of disease," and it's not going away anytime soon. Along with other respiratory viruses, it will simply continue to circulate.

I asked Rubin about teachers who might be worried about walking into a school in which asymptomatic kids are "masking to stay."

"Welcome to all of our world over the last couple of weeks," he says. "I hear what you're saying, but we have folks — restaurant workers, health care workers — who face that every day. And it's not just from their patients — it's from their colleagues. And that's the world of Omicron.

"I would remind them that it's the vaccination and the boosters, when they're eligible, that are protective," he says. "And in a typical flu season, no one would wear masks. You're probably at a higher risk in that season of getting the flu. And flu can have particularly severe consequences. But for vaccinated individuals, boosted individuals, the risk is far lower."

He says that for some very high-risk teachers, accommodations could be made on an individual basis.

Also, if a student or teacher has a health condition, they may want to continue to test frequently. "Let's make that more of a voluntary or optional program, and we should provide the access to those individuals who do need to know."

The transition back to normal, he says, also will eventually mean that kids take off their masks. (In December, as the Omicron wave was rising, he and his colleagues at CHOP "implored the schools" to keep masks on, but cases will soon start to fall.)

"I think most schools look at declining transmission and declining hospitalization," Rubin says. "And so we're helping schools try to identify when that moment is, because everyone is doing it a little differently. But I think by February, we're going to start to see a lot of schools moving to mask-optional postures."

Rubin acknowledges that he is advocating an unorthodox strategy, especially during the upheaval of Omicron, but he feels compelled to do it. "It's counterintuitive a little bit because of the phase of the pandemic that we're at, and that we hear about in the news every day. But it is truly a different moment."
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: Florestan on January 18, 2022, 09:32:49 AM
With all due respect, Manabu, your analogies for refusing vaccination are wildly far-fetched.

Let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Sounds good, Andrei. Thank you for reading my post, and again, enjoy your wine and a few strong shots!  ;D ;D

T. D.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/supreme-court-gorsuch-refused-to-wear-mask-despite-sotomayors-covid-concerns.html

Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch has refused to wear a mask during proceedings, despite a request from Chief Justice John Roberts to do so, according to a report.
Gorsuch's continued defiance has led Justice Sonia Sotomayor — who has diabetes and is therefore at a higher risk of serious illness from Covid — to attend oral arguments remotely, the report said.
Roberts "in some form" asked the justices to wear masks, NPR reported. Gorsuch, a nominee of former President Donald Trump, was reportedly the only one to refuse.

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: T. D. on January 18, 2022, 11:35:51 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/supreme-court-gorsuch-refused-to-wear-mask-despite-sotomayors-covid-concerns.html

Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch has refused to wear a mask during proceedings, despite a request from Chief Justice John Roberts to do so, according to a report.
Gorsuch's continued defiance has led Justice Sonia Sotomayor — who has diabetes and is therefore at a higher risk of serious illness from Covid — to attend oral arguments remotely, the report said.
Roberts "in some form" asked the justices to wear masks, NPR reported. Gorsuch, a nominee of former President Donald Trump, was reportedly the only one to refuse.


Very interesting news in many, differential aspects/issues. Thank you for the info.

Florestan

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 18, 2022, 11:35:41 AM
Sounds good, Andrei. Thank you for reading my post, and again, enjoy your wine and a few strong shots!  ;D ;D

I always read your posts with interest. Cheers!
Every kind of music is good, except the boring kind. — Rossini

Karl Henning

Quote from: T. D. on January 18, 2022, 11:35:51 AM
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/supreme-court-gorsuch-refused-to-wear-mask-despite-sotomayors-covid-concerns.html

Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch has refused to wear a mask during proceedings, despite a request from Chief Justice John Roberts to do so, according to a report.
Gorsuch's continued defiance has led Justice Sonia Sotomayor — who has diabetes and is therefore at a higher risk of serious illness from Covid — to attend oral arguments remotely, the report said.
Roberts "in some form" asked the justices to wear masks, NPR reported. Gorsuch, a nominee of former President Donald Trump, was reportedly the only one to refuse.

One can be on the SCOTUS and still be a performative asshole, I perceive.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Omicron forces more cruise lines to cancel trips

In recent weeks, hundreds of passengers have contracted the coronavirus onboard ships, with many falling ill and spending days in quarantine.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Meanwhile, in Trumplandia:

Detainees sue Arkansas jail that gave them ivermectin to treat COVID

Detainees at an Arkansas jail who had COVID-19 were unknowingly treated by the detention center's doctor with ivermectin, a drug that health officials have continually said is dangerous and should not be used to treat or prevent a coronavirus infection, according to a federal lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union on behalf of four detainees.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Fourth Pfizer dose is insufficient to ward off Omicron, Israeli trial suggests
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Dry Brett Kavanaugh

Quote from: k a rl h e nn i ng on January 18, 2022, 11:42:12 AM
One can be on the SCOTUS and still be a performative asshole, I perceive.

I thought that there are many issues in the incident. A few things I can think of now include:

1) the anti-vaccination and anti-mask theory could be legally and ideologically supported and legitimized by several, or even a majority, of Justices in the top body of judicial branch.

2) the power of Chief Justice over other Justices in this (procedural) circumstance is unclear and un-agreed upon. This disagreement could be exacerbated by the disagreement over 1).

3) I thought, and still think, that Alito and Thomas can be worse assholes.  ;D

Karl Henning

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 18, 2022, 12:08:17 PM
I thought that there are many issues in the incident. A few things I can think of now include:

1) the anti-vaccination and anti-mask theory could be legally and ideologically supported and legitimized by several, or even a majority, of Justices in the top body of judicial branch.

2) the power of Chief Justice over other Justices in this (procedural) circumstance is unclear and un-agreed upon. This disagreement could be exacerbated by the disagreement over 1).

3) I thought, and still think, that Alito and Thomas can be worse assholes.  ;D

All points well taken.
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Karl Henning

Omicron hasn't peaked in U.S., surgeon general says, warning that 'next few weeks will be tough'
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Madiel

Quote from: Dry Brett Kavanaugh on January 18, 2022, 12:08:17 PM
1) the anti-vaccination and anti-mask theory could be legally and ideologically supported and legitimized by several, or even a majority, of Justices in the top body of judicial branch.

Yes, with their abundance of epidemiological qualifications.
I am now working on a discography of the works of Vagn Holmboe. Please visit and also contribute!

Mandryka

It is a little odd that Denmark is still growing in cases and hospital admissions when they started same time as UK and are more boosted as well...


https://twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1483752123775041540
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen