Coronavirus thread

[71 dB]

Yeah, because I wasn't talking about the effectiveness of the vaccine for other people.

Vaccines are not about YOU. They are about EVERYONE, and that means things are statistical. Statistically vaccines have worked well saving millions of people in the World while helping keeping healthcare services up and running by limiting hospitalizations. You are "just" part of the vaccine statistics, just like all of us are. Things could have been even less harmful, if all people had taken the pandemic as a collective rather than an individual thing. Pandemics and individualism is a very problematic combination.

[Karl Henning]

If I had a 20 for every time someone has reasoned with greg, "It isn't about YOU" ....

[greg]

Ok, so I'm only allowed to talk about general statistical experiences, while others can talk about their personal experiences. Got it.


edit:
Let me see if I can try to explain again, if anyone gets it this time.


The people I know, vaxxed or unvaxxed, who got Covid recently, had the illness for a few days and symptoms for a week. Same happened for me.

But I'm younger than them, and also very healthy. There should be no reason at all to have the expectation of going to hospital (maybe in earlier Covid days that would be a stronger possibility, but it's pretty weak now in comparison).

So my baseline expectation was, at worst, I would have the same result. That's why I used the word "ineffective." I expected to have lesser, or zero, symptoms, but instead got the same baseline expectation.

The conclusion was that it was mostly due to the time gap. That's fine. We can leave it at that.

There is literally no point to contend with here. I'm not commenting on overall statistics at all, or effectivity of the vaccine for the general population.

[Madiel]

Ok, so I'm only allowed to talk about general statistical experiences, while others can talk about their personal experiences. Got it.

No, you haven't got it at all.

You didn't just talk about your personal experiences, you talked about the effectiveness of a vaccine that came across as saying that the vaccine was pointless, just because of your personal experience. You didn't just tell us you got sick, you drew conclusions from it.

It's on the same level as saying that climate change must not be happening because it snowed in your town today. The snow is personal experience, but the other part is faulty reasoning. 

I recognise that you might not have been trying to say that vaccines are generally pointless, but that's what you come across as implying precisely because effectiveness only makes sense in general, statistical terms, not in an individual case. And as I've already said you actually have no way of knowing whether your illness would have been worse if you were unvaccinated.

[greg]

I recognise that you might not have been trying to say that vaccines are generally pointless, but that's what you come across as implying precisely because effectiveness only makes sense in general, statistical terms, not in an individual case. And as I've already said you actually have no way of knowing whether your illness would have been worse if you were unvaccinated.

Okay, you get it now.

This is why it's much better having discussions with you than certain others around here.

What is a better word than effectiveness, for one person? Just replace that word with it.

And as I've already said you actually have no way of knowing whether your illness would have been worse if you were unvaccinated.

Right. I'm simply comparing to expectations. Maybe they are bad expectations, which we seem to have concluded.

[Madiel]

I no longer expect not getting sick, because I live in the world's most vaccinated city and people around me are constantly getting sick.

Meanwhile I've just had a cold that took 3 weeks to clear up... LOTS of things are circulating more this winter as people interact more than they did the past 2 years.

There's been some discussion of reimposing mask requirements in Australia as case numbers soar. I doubt it will happen. You do see a fair amount of masks in certain settings. In general I carry mine but just try to keep my distance from random people.

[71 dB]

What is a better word than effectiveness, for one person? Just replace that word with it.

How the vaccine affects a certain person is unpredictable, but how the vaccine affects large populations statistically is predictable. That's why effectiveness only makes sense statistically in the case of the vaccine. We can talk about risk reduction. That incorporates the statistical nature even when talking about just one person.

[greg]

Meanwhile I've just had a cold that took 3 weeks to clear up

3 weeks? Yikes.

How the vaccine affects a certain person is unpredictable, but how the vaccine affects large populations statistically is predictable. That's why effectiveness only makes sense statistically in the case of the vaccine. We can talk about risk reduction. That incorporates the statistical nature even when talking about just one person.

Yes.

[Madiel]

3 weeks? Yikes.

Well it was only about one week of full symptoms of stuffed nose and so on. But the cough refused to go away for a long time. It was extremely annoying.

[André]

Lingering cough is often a 'by-product' of a cold - a secondary condition. A few years ago I had a cold that resulted in 3 weeks of lingering cough - it then degenerated into a bronchitis. They were 3 different conditions with a single initial cause. Common cold can be serious.

[Karl Henning]

Biden team warns on COVID subvariant that may evade immunity

[prémont]

..... COVID subvariant that may evade immunity[/i]

Same ol' story.

[Karl Henning]

Same ol' story.

Indeed!

[Madiel]

Biden team warns on COVID subvariant that may evade immunity

Number 4 or number 5?...

[Todd]

From CNN: The 'worst variant' is here

Worst variant.  BA.5.  Very scary.  If it is the worst variant, as the very measured description has it, then unfortunately hospitalizations and then deaths should/will spike rather markedly, presumably surpassing 2020 figures.  Or not.   

[prémont]

From CNN: The 'worst variant' is here

Worst variant.  BA.5.  Very scary.  If it is the worst variant, as the very measured description has it, then unfortunately hospitalizations and then deaths should/will spike rather markedly, presumably surpassing 2020 figures.  Or not.

Already the dominant variant in Denmark. Numbers of hospitalizations are rising but numbers of patients in ICU are decreasing, so the variant is probably not more virulent than earlier variants even if it is more contagious.

[MusicTurner]

Numbers of identified cases have now been pretty stable for a month here in DK, including after the recent growth of BA5 - around 2000 - 3000 daily.

BA 2.75 now considered the latest, more contagious variant here.

[prémont]

Numbers of identified cases have now been pretty stable for a month here in DK, including after the recent growth of BA5 - around 2000 - 3000 daily.

This depends upon where you are in the country. In my area the numbers of identified cases have been slowly rising.

[krummholz]

Cases are slowly rising in the US as well, with BA 4 and BA 5 dominating. Despite this there have been no warnings of increased virus activity in Vermont, and I see very few people masking up in stores. There is no longer a state-run testing program though, so our only semi-reliable indicator of virus activity is wastewater analysis. We will likely not know that a surge is happening until it is in full swing. IMO anyone who goes maskless in crowded settings here is taking unnecessary chances.

[Karl Henning]

Cases are slowly rising in the US as well, with BA 4 and BA 5 dominating. Despite this there have been no warnings of increased virus activity in Vermont, and I see very few people masking up in stores. There is no longer a state-run testing program though, so our only semi-reliable indicator of virus activity is wastewater analysis. We will likely not know that a surge is happening until it is in full swing. IMO anyone who goes maskless in crowded settings here is taking unnecessary chances.

Agreed.